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Old 10-08-2019, 02:14 PM   #6176
ilittle17
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceynine View Post
At 1:30:06 "Oh Mike! Joe has jacks." oops LMAO
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/306445878?t=5260s
Bang to rights
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:17 PM   #6177
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
how do you know the J4 hand was Taylor?
His name was said.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:33 PM   #6178
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This fold of TT when the opponent has JJ, but the screen says J4o is really interesting. Props to GoMM to finding it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Guys i just found a clip that implicates the graphics department/ graphics guy i think. (At the very least its a god mode fold on the flop that i havent seen anywhere else.) This stream is gold. Mike has a notepad to mask his constant looking down. Look at what Mike Postle does on this flop with his overpair after you hear the commentators mention his opponent doesnt actually have J4 offsuit HE HAS JJ. But look at the graphics too. Weird ass hand as we have cards changing. Why would it show J4 if he actually had JJ though? But more weird is Mikes action with pocket 10s on a 2 7 4 board.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/306445878?t=5300s
The hand starts at 01:28:20
Edit: If the graphics on stream show J4 how would mike know it was JJ. I'm confused. Can someone tweet Berkey, Joey, / Doug this hand. Berkey has a video out about the rfid and the other hand that was suspect with graphics changing. What happened here?
Various ideas have been put forward, and I greatly appreciated the post from peckx063 that started...
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckx063 View Post
There are four possible explanations to the JJ/J4 hand...
Click the quote above to read in full.
I think it's pretty likely that Postle had TT and the other guy had JJ, but I wonder if Taylor tried to override the graphics to make Postle's flop fold looks less suspicious, but made a mistake.
Is it technically possible that Taylor quickly tried to do a manual override of the graphics (to give Mike hand he could fold, like 54s or something), but accidentally assigned a 4 to the other guy?
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:33 PM   #6179
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopia View Post
From the infamous 86o graphics error session, here are the 8d and 6s being correctly ID'd on the board about 45 minutes before that hand:

Good stuff, this makes it so much more unreasonable that the graphics guy made that change in real time. He had a lot of reasons to think that Postle's hand was correct.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:34 PM   #6180
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Team_Josh122 View Post
Not sure if it’s known already or not, or even helps at all, but I believe Taylor goes by TheVocalTerror or VocalTerror in the twitch chat and twitter.
Can you prove this?
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:34 PM   #6181
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Wiping hard drives isn't my area, you are correct. My area is the law.

So you should read Phillips Electronics v. BC Technical, where a spoliation sanction was imposed against a company that "wiped" its hard drive, which left enough data on the disk for a forensic image to reveal portions of the "wiped" files and to show they were tampered with.

Or read Pacific Coast Marine Windshields v. Malibu Boats, where the same thing happened.
I read the memo decision of the first, I didn't need to go on to the second because it was clear you didn't understand what you were reading. The programs they used (which they even listed the names of) were file wipers that ran under Windows, ie programs that try to shred individual files on a running computer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
I realize that given enough time, a computer expert can do a thorough wipe of a hard drive. But the likelihood of anyone doing that here is extremely remote- the person would need to be able to access the computer for a long time with nobody getting suspicious.

And I certainly can't run wiping programs without administrator status on work computers I have worked on. If you can, you can, I guess.
"Computer expert"? Our pimply-faced IT intern can do it, in fact he has to, routinely.

Dude, just stop. This isn't your thing.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:35 PM   #6182
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

There's a rumor going around that Mike's changing his last name to "Rotch".
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:36 PM   #6183
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Michael Buble View Post
His name was said.
Missed that, thanks
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:41 PM   #6184
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssuck View Post
Finally, as far as I can tell from the video, Mike Postle appears to be in his seat for at least 30 more minutes after the hand is completed. And during these 30 minutes, it does not appear that Mike has any personal communication with anyone beside the players at the table.
Video evidence and timestamps have shown that when the YouTube chatters asked "Why did he just call?", JFK literally went out to the table and asked Postle. JFK then went back and typed into the chatbox about 87 not 88.
The best explanation I/we could come up with was that Postle lied to JFK about his holecards, and JFK, in his naivety, believed him.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:42 PM   #6185
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Not sure if this has been shared before but there was a talk at Defcon about how to cheat at poker and this page describes it a bit with a nice video example. The setup can even read cards that are still in the deck and yet to be dealt. Granted I'm not sure it "fully" explains everything, the setup looks pretty familiar (it uses a cell phone and a key fob...) However it requires a deck that has been tampered with...

https://elie.net/blog/security/fulle...ating-devices/

Last edited by pzi; 10-08-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:44 PM   #6186
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by GobboGrandchild View Post
Jeez guys.... the world definitely is full of the conspiracy guys and the "something wrong with everything" mindset.

Have you EVER EVER EVER seen or heard anyone deny anything, but leave doubts if maybe it happened anyway????

If you deny something you do so vigorously and strong minded..

"i did not have sex with that woman" springs to mind...

No one EVER in Justin his place would say: "we did an investigation and we could not come up with something that looks like cheating, but well, someone said there is cheating going on so yeah maybe they are cheating..who knows".

EVERYONE would say: F off..we checked.. no cheating and people need to stop with these rubbish claims.. We have the best security in the world and our games are 100% safe....


Stop the conspiracy theories.... come with PROOF!!!
The fact that Justin was involved in an investigation that couldn't uncover any cheating when it was happening on his watch right under his nose is proof surely of at best gross incompetence and at worst complicity - we shall see shortly which one it is. Hardly a conspiracy theory and certainly not 'a complete fabrication'. His witness statement should make fascinating reading.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:46 PM   #6187
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by unlucky4some View Post
I read the memo decision of the first, I didn't need to go on to the second because it was clear you didn't understand what you were reading. The programs they used (which they even listed the names of) were file wipers that ran under Windows, ie programs that try to shred individual files on a running computer.




"Computer expert"? Our pimply-faced IT intern can do it, in fact he has to, routinely.

Dude, just stop. This isn't your thing.
You can insult me all you want, but you are positing a completely implausible theory.

If your organization gives an IT intern the ability to wipe hard drives that have significant content that is governed by regulatory statutes requiring preservation of content, your organization has made a ridiculous data security mistake.

I've worked at law firms. We are required to maintain client files, which are property of the client. We also have to maintain them for malpractice insurance and tax reasons. So, ergo, we don't allow IT interns to have the power to install and run wiping programs on computers.

Guess who also has data retention obligations. You guessed it, CASINOS. There's a CCR requiring them to retain surveillance footage. They also have to retain all sorts of other data relating to their operations. Plus the IRS generally requires them to retain financial data for six years.

So nobody at a casino is giving IT interns any access to wipe data off hard drives. That simply does not happen.

Further, you keep on ignoring that COMPLETE WIPING TAKES TIME. It isn't "press a key and the whole drive is toast". To completely wipe a disk of all traces of material relevant to a forensic investigation is going to require that our conspirator be alone with the computer, and with proper access to install and run wiping software, for A LONG TIME. In a facility with a ton of surveillance cameras, which is open 24 hours a day.

You can call me all the names you want, but THIS. DIDN'T. HAPPEN. It simply didn't. You can posit an alternative universe where all the rules governing casinos don't apply and nobody keeps their computers secure and IT interns can access computers for several hours without supervision and delete all sorts of files that the government requires the enterprise to keep, but that's just not possible in the real world.

I have never said that it is impossible to completely overwrite a hard drive. I have said that it is completely impossible to overwrite a hard drive under these conditions. Any attempts at wiping files in this situation are going to have left forensic traces.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:53 PM   #6188
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
This fold of TT when the opponent has JJ, but the screen says J4o is really interesting. Props to GoMM to finding it:

Various ideas have been put forward, and I greatly appreciated the post from peckx063 that started...

Click the quote above to read in full.
I think it's pretty likely that Postle had TT and the other guy had JJ, but I wonder if Taylor tried to override the graphics to make Postle's flop fold looks less suspicious, but made a mistake.
Is it technically possible that Taylor quickly tried to do a manual override of the graphics (to give Mike hand he could fold, like 54s or something), but accidentally assigned a 4 to the other guy?
Also seems possible Postle's graphics were wrong and he didn't have TT. On other hands were graphics were off, have multiple cards been wrong in the hand?
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:53 PM   #6189
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
The fact that Justin was involved in an investigation that couldn't uncover any cheating when it was happening on his watch right under his nose is proof surely of at best gross incompetence and at worst complicity - we shall see shortly which one it is. Hardly a conspiracy theory and certainly not 'a complete fabrication'. His witness statement should make fascinating reading.
Of course it is grossssss incompetence and he should be fired and never hired anywhere ever again.... no problem admitting that and in my opinion IF he did the investigation (no one proved that yet i believe?) maybe he could even be held financially responsible for losses from players AFTER the moment of investigation???

all i am saying is that just because he says that "blatant lies" etc etc about the accusations does not mean that he is involved or lets his "buddy" continue with that cheating.....He is just taking the company standpoint and denying vehemently that something is going on to protect the brand
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:58 PM   #6190
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GobboGrandchild View Post
Jeez guys.... the world definitely is full of the conspiracy guys and the "something wrong with everything" mindset.

Have you EVER EVER EVER seen or heard anyone deny anything, but leave doubts if maybe it happened anyway????

If you deny something you do so vigorously and strong minded..

"i did not have sex with that woman" springs to mind...

No one EVER in Justin his place would say: "we did an investigation and we could not come up with something that looks like cheating, but well, someone said there is cheating going on so yeah maybe they are cheating..who knows".

EVERYONE would say: F off..we checked.. no cheating and people need to stop with these rubbish claims.. We have the best security in the world and our games are 100% safe....


Stop the conspiracy theories.... come with PROOF!!!
Dude, people accused a player at one of his games of cheating. A normal statement would say: We investigated and did not find any evidence of cheating. A not normal statement would attack anyone who accused the player of cheating by going a step further and calling any allegations a complete fabrication. You should go back and read Veronica's texts after she went to JFK and voiced her concerns privately.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:59 PM   #6191
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Love how YouTube recommendations work.
Top of my list today:



Jaman could easily have some quality footage of Mike cheating from his own camera at the table.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:04 PM   #6192
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So this hand here, around the 32 minute mark, you can clearly see when he looks down that his phone is own during play. You see it multiple times during the hand and then at the end, he stands up and puts the phone in the pocket and it's still on.



https://www.twitch.tv/videos/460804724?t=1850s

I haven't gone through the entire stream to see if you can ever get a better reflection. It may be the blue screen but likely just the glasses are blue. I think the more relevant thing is proof that his screen isn't locked while playing a big hand.

EDIT: Sorry, no idea why picture is turned sideways.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:05 PM   #6193
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
I'm posting for a very specific reason: because there's just a tendency of people to assume that criminals are diabolical masterminds who will find a way to escape the law, and there was a fair amount of it in this thread.



It matters for people to know that if there's a real investigation and real effort by authorities, that these people will be brought to justice. Fatalism about the legal system is very bad in this situation.


You’re fine lawdude you’re trying to educate those throwing things against the legal wall to see if they stick.

I guess what I’m saying is: the 2-3 lawyers in the thread are doing their pro bono work for the year with all the explaining and back and forth they are doing.

These are billable hours, guys!
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:07 PM   #6194
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
Yes only for approved followers but I believe he has some
it's not like the tweets are deleted. Idk if he had this for longer or recently tho
I think the question to be asking is why would a Tournament Director in charge of promoting and expanding his card room ever have his tweets set to reach a limited audience?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vaF0kwjQhg&t=20m50s

Postle check/calls a rivered boat against a better boat (god mode) and confounds the commentators before JFK posts in their chat a few minutes later Mike's hand graphics were wrong and he had two pair instead.

How would JFK ever know this?
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:13 PM   #6195
Redgrape
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrape View Post
I'm doing some analysis of the data in R. I'm going to look at a lot of different factors, but here's a cursory look at keys and phone in lap as variables. I turned those columns into 1's as yes and 0 as no. I did a simple OLS regression to see how well those variables predicted his profit. Having keys on the table or phone on your lap should have no significance and no predictive power of his results, just like the color of his shirt or whether its raining.

The keys on the table have no predictive power to how much he profits and has a very high p value, just like we would expect. This throws cold water on the theory about the keys. Even if I look at the most recent 30 sessions, still absolutely 0 predictive power on his profit.

https://imgur.com/a/S3H9JAj

However, the phone being on his lap or not has remarkable significance.

https://imgur.com/a/2sZuLYw

The p value is super low, which means this variable is very significant. When his phone was in his lap, he won an average of $4,546 per session. When his phone wasn't in his lap, he won an average of $227 per session. This should not matter at all if the person is playing fair. But whether his phone was in his lap or not significantly predict how much he wins. This is not deep statistical analysis, I'm just using OLS. I encourage data scientists to look at the Postle spreadsheet and do your own research.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1252155464
Okay so I've done some analysis on the hats. I've identified 11 unique hats, but its possible there are more. Some have pointed out that two hats have looked similar but are actually slightly different. It's a lot of different hats.

This one is not nearly as clear as the phone, and I'm starting to doubt he used a headset at all, and its likely all the head rubbing and pressing is just a distraction to give Postle cover to look in his lap.

The only hat that is remotely suspicious is the hat labeled on the spreadsheet as "pure white." He wore this hat 21 times and won an average of $4,765. He also wears this hat more often after a period of not cheating in July as noted by others in the thread. In his most recent 3 sessions, he wore it 6 times. So if there is anything going on with that hats, I would guess it's the pure white one. So anyone who wants to go deeper into the hat conspiracy, I would suggest you watch videos where he is wearing that hat, especially in the 6 most recent sessions.

There's no hat that he did badly with, however the grey and red hat was not as good as the other hats, he only won $1,283 while wearing that hat.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:17 PM   #6196
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
You can insult me all you want, but you are positing a completely implausible theory.

If your organization gives an IT intern the ability to wipe hard drives that have significant content that is governed by regulatory statutes requiring preservation of content, your organization has made a ridiculous data security mistake.

I've worked at law firms. We are required to maintain client files, which are property of the client. We also have to maintain them for malpractice insurance and tax reasons. So, ergo, we don't allow IT interns to have the power to install and run wiping programs on computers.

Guess who also has data retention obligations. You guessed it, CASINOS. There's a CCR requiring them to retain surveillance footage. They also have to retain all sorts of other data relating to their operations. Plus the IRS generally requires them to retain financial data for six years.

So nobody at a casino is giving IT interns any access to wipe data off hard drives. That simply does not happen.

Further, you keep on ignoring that COMPLETE WIPING TAKES TIME. It isn't "press a key and the whole drive is toast". To completely wipe a disk of all traces of material relevant to a forensic investigation is going to require that our conspirator be alone with the computer, and with proper access to install and run wiping software, for A LONG TIME. In a facility with a ton of surveillance cameras, which is open 24 hours a day.

You can call me all the names you want, but THIS. DIDN'T. HAPPEN. It simply didn't. You can posit an alternative universe where all the rules governing casinos don't apply and nobody keeps their computers secure and IT interns can access computers for several hours without supervision and delete all sorts of files that the government requires the enterprise to keep, but that's just not possible in the real world.

I have never said that it is impossible to completely overwrite a hard drive. I have said that it is completely impossible to overwrite a hard drive under these conditions. Any attempts at wiping files in this situation are going to have left forensic traces.
Everything this guy is saying wrt IT is true.


Formatting a HDD doesn't mean the data is gone. Really all this does is remove the pointers to the data -- the data is still there, but it isn't overwritten unless necessary.


Source: Am an IT manager.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:19 PM   #6197
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzi View Post
Not sure if this has been shared before but there was a talk at Defcon about how to cheat at poker and this page describes it a bit with a nice video example. The setup can even read cards that are still in the deck and yet to be dealt. Granted I'm not sure it "fully" explains everything, the setup looks pretty familiar (it uses a cell phone and a key fob...) However it requires a deck that has been tampered with...

https://elie.net/blog/security/fulle...ating-devices/
This is definitely not the approach that's being used here. Since it's using cards that have been marked, his accomplice could swap these decks into any game. They certainly wouldn't decide to choose a televised game where there is a record of their cheating. They would have chosen a much lower-profile game, and one that doesn't expose the identity of his and everyone's cards to the world. The fact that it is happening on this table makes it clear that they are using the RFID devices in the cards, either through the reading devices and software already hooked up for broadcast purposes or (much less likely) by reading the cards directly with his own RFID scanner.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:21 PM   #6198
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
Love how YouTube recommendations work.
Top of my list today:



Jaman could easily have some quality footage of Mike cheating from his own camera at the table.
So at 3:32 of this video, a bunch of people (including Postle) agree to go all in blind for the first hand, so they can raise the table stakes of the game. It appears there must be a max buyin before you can chip up to the largest stack at the table.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #6199
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

My whole family are lawyers, friends with lawyers, work with lawyers, etc...

The way they talk is fascinating. Constantly asking questions they already know the answers to, arguing for arguing sake, using the most words possible to say whatever point they're tying to make, humblebrags about cases...always intrigued me.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #6200
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
This is definitely not the approach that's being used here. Since it's using cards that have been marked, his accomplice could swap these decks into any game. They certainly wouldn't decide to choose a televised game where there is a record of their cheating. They would have chosen a much lower-profile game, and one that doesn't expose the identity of his and everyone's cards to the world. The fact that it is happening on this table makes it clear that they are using the RFID devices in the cards, either through the reading devices and software already hooked up for broadcast purposes or (much less likely) by reading the cards directly with his own RFID scanner.
Its unlikely, but plausible that the alleged perpetrators only had access to the RFID decks and sent them off to be marked.

I have no idea how the show or poker room are run, but its entirely possible people with access to the RFID decks would not be the same people with access to the decks used in normal operations.

Also, as Joey pointed out these two things aren't mutually exclusive. Its entirely possible they were doing both at different times or even the same time.
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