Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2019, 10:00 AM   #6076
cneuy3
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,669
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by archii View Post
If he has bone conduction audio from someone who has access to cards, why does he need the phone at all? He could act totally normal and someone would simply feed him the info he needs. No need to do shady dick staring.

I'm still not buying 100% that he has audio at all..
Also, I'd think doing that for an entire session would also be very difficult as it's quite hard multitasking to appear normal and in conversation with the table and have someone in your ear on another end at the same time.

Same reasons why I never and still don't believe it's some sort of live stream on his phone. He isn't going to be able to absorb that information from a live stream and appear normal to the rest of the table for entire year+ without getting caught at some point.

Whatever information he was getting was quick and precise and to the point. It surely could have been done through audio as well but imagine having someone speaking into your ear during all those hands while other eyes are fixed on you on you at the table. Probably much easier to just stare at your dick most of the time even though in hindsight that now looks very suspect.
cneuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:07 AM   #6077
pocket_zeros
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,524
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by archii View Post
If he has bone conduction audio from someone who has access to cards, why does he need the phone at all? He could act totally normal and someone would simply feed him the info he needs. No need to do shady dick staring.

I'm still not buying 100% that he has audio at all..
Because the headphones need a device to feed them the audio - they're bluetooth only. He did the dick staring before cellphone use at the table was banned - he switched to the headphones after cellphone use was banned. And the headphones allowed him to get information in a less obvious manner than staring down at your dick constantly while you're in a hand.
pocket_zeros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:07 AM   #6078
SemiFreddo
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 172
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3 View Post

Same reasons why I never and still don't believe it's some sort of live stream on his phone. He isn't going to be able to absorb that information from a live stream and appear normal to the rest of the table for entire year+ without getting caught at some point.

Whatever information he was getting was quick and precise and to the point. It surely could have been done through audio as well but imagine having someone speaking into your ear during all those hands while other eyes are fixed on you on you at the table. Probably much easier to just stare at your dick most of the time even though in hindsight that now looks very suspect.
I think they could have done different methods of visual information, texting, stream on different points in this thing.

But I think a crop out from the stream overlay would be the most convenient to use. Just the overlay like this. That would be easy to stream to his phone in real time



Check out Berky's video on how this all works behind the scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BBWJbRjCs
SemiFreddo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:10 AM   #6079
Maradona10
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 60
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It's not rocket science to follow the livestream post flop.
Maradona10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:11 AM   #6080
pocket_zeros
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,524
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
I think they could have done different methods of visual information, texting, stream on different points in this thing.

But I think a crop out from the stream overlay would be the most convenient to use. Just the overlay like this. That would be easy to stream to his phone in real time



Check out Berky's video on how this all works behind the scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BBWJbRjCs
Take a look at this frame grab of his phone compared to Google Remote Desktop (my full post):

pocket_zeros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:14 AM   #6081
soapdodger
adept
 
soapdodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: baath time
Posts: 984
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I like this theory Freddo. I have been wondering how Mike sees the info displayed on his phone - it must be hard to make out down there. It would take too much time for someone to feed it to him in messages, and this is simple and clear.

It would also explain why he tends generally to make quick decisions pre flop, but sometimes seems to be clearly stalling for time on many occasions when facing aggression, until the graphics have updated with only the live cards now showing and he can peek again. He can make quick decisions preflop as he will find out what he's up against between preflop and flop (and cheat accordingly) - UNLESS he's facing a big bet preflop. I haven't checked yet, but I'd be very confident hands showing this behaviour are on numerous streams.
soapdodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:16 AM   #6082
Grind On My Mind
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 325
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That frame grab is when he gets up from the table and he clicks his phone on then seconds later clicks it off the bluescreen. The time stamped video is posted several pages back for folks who want to see the video.
Grind On My Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:17 AM   #6083
pocket_zeros
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,524
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapdodger View Post
I like this theory Freddo. I have been wondering how Mike sees the info displayed on his phone - it must be hard to make out down there. It would take too much time for someone to feed it to him in messages, and this is simple and clear.

It would also explain why he tends generally make quick decisions pre flop, but sometimes seems to be clearly stalling for time on many occasions when facing aggression, until the graphics have updated with only the live cards now showing.
The theory has already been discussed at length and is one of the most likely scenarios. He likely keeps his hand under the table to allow him to pan/scroll around the cropped stream on his phone.
pocket_zeros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:19 AM   #6084
peckx063
journeyman
 
peckx063's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 375
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

There are four possible explanations to the JJ/J4 hand

1. Mike P played the hand legitimately. At some point after the hand, they realized the holding was actually JJ (verified by dealer or the player). Thus the graphics stay as J4, but the commentators on the 30 minute delay find out it was actually JJ.

2. One of the jacks in the deck was registered as a four of spades when the deck was initially registered to the RFID system. I believe the registering is all done manually (the RFID reader asks for the jack of hearts and then you put the jack of hearts on the reader, or something like this). At some point from the beginning of the deck being introduced to 30 minutes after this hand was played, it is a known issue with the deck that one of the jacks is reading as the four. If Mike P already knew the 4s was actually a jack then he can fold correctly.

3. They are running the MultiGFX mode of PokerGFX and they are displaying a secondary graphic that is not running in RFID mode. That is to say, on every hand the graphics person is reading the RFID hole card information off of the 1st copy and manually enters the hole cards into the 2nd copy which is being displayed on stream. Maybe there was a technical reason the tech wanted to manually enter the hole cards. On this particular hand, the tech incorrectly entered the 4 instead of the J and did not catch his mistake, but Mike P still had access to the correct information.

4. Mike P knows Joe well enough to know that he is never playing J4os in a 3-bet pot, so he ignores the RFID information and assumes Joe either has JJ or 44 and folds. Taylor concurs with Mike P's read and goes ahead and tells the commentators the graphics are wrong.
peckx063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:22 AM   #6085
Makonnen
old hand
 
Makonnen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,358
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratslla View Post
he loocc at sacc
he attacc
but he also hacc
well played.

Spoiler:
Makonnen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #6086
soapdodger
adept
 
soapdodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: baath time
Posts: 984
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
The theory has already been discussed at length and is one of the most likely scenarios. He likely keeps his hand under the table to allow him to pan/scroll around the cropped stream on his phone.
right, apologies if i've missed discussion on exactly what he's seeing on phone. Hadn't seen suggestion it's just isolated graphics - certain things I've been paying attention to more than others ITT again though, think this must be it - and could be backed up with the kind of great analysis of the feeds Gumpnstein has done.
soapdodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:25 AM   #6087
Loctus
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Loctus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,324
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckx063 View Post
There are four possible explanations to the JJ/J4 hand

1. Mike P played the hand legitimately. At some point after the hand, they realized the holding was actually JJ (verified by dealer or the player). Thus the graphics stay as J4, but the commentators on the 30 minute delay find out it was actually JJ.

2. One of the jacks in the deck was registered as a four of spades when the deck was initially registered to the RFID system. I believe the registering is all done manually (the RFID reader asks for the jack of hearts and then you put the jack of hearts on the reader, or something like this). At some point from the beginning of the deck being introduced to 30 minutes after this hand was played, it is a known issue with the deck that one of the jacks is reading as the four. If Mike P already knew the 4s was actually a jack then he can fold correctly.

3. They are running the MultiGFX mode of PokerGFX and they are displaying a secondary graphic that is not running in RFID mode. That is to say, on every hand the graphics person is reading the RFID hole card information off of the 1st copy and manually enters the hole cards into the 2nd copy which is being displayed on stream. Maybe there was a technical reason the tech wanted to manually enter the hole cards. On this particular hand, the tech incorrectly entered the 4 instead of the J and did not catch his mistake, but Mike P still had access to the correct information.

4. Mike P knows Joe well enough to know that he is never playing J4os in a 3-bet pot, so he ignores the RFID information and assumes Joe either has JJ or 44 and folds. Taylor concurs with Mike P's read and goes ahead and tells the commentators the graphics are wrong.
2. isn't the case, I looked through the episode and all J's and the 4s read corretly
Loctus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:29 AM   #6088
peckx063
journeyman
 
peckx063's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 375
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
2. isn't the case, I looked through the episode and all J's and the 4s read corretly
#4 makes the most sense to me. There have been reports that the RFID at the Stones had a history of being hit and miss. Mike P knows the information is less than infallible and decides there's no way the guy is really sticking around with J4os. Probably why he looks like an actual thinking poker player during his flop decision.
peckx063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:30 AM   #6089
Grind On My Mind
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 325
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Im hypothesizing that when mike goes to look down at his actual hole cards he is never really looking at them but instead looking down inbetween legs. Of course in a big pot he will double check. It just allows him to digest more info faster.
Grind On My Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:36 AM   #6090
JLucas
enthusiast
 
JLucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 72
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Graphics Company reacts to the allegations: ""IF THE OPERATOR HAD STOPPED TO THINK FOR MORE THAN FIVE SECONDS, HE WOULD HAVE REALIZED THAT THE CHANGE WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN AFTER THE FACT, SO I SUSPECT IT WAS DONE IN A MOMENT OF PANIC."
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...ions-35609.htm
JLucas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:41 AM   #6091
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,641
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
It's very likely at this point whoever has acces to the cards in real time is in on this scam
This simply is not true. It could easily be someone who wanted to make the hand appear less suspicious for any number of reasons, including rumor control,
hiding the cheating but they're not involved, etc. You're scenario is most likely in my nonexpert opinion, but nowhere near VERY likely.
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:43 AM   #6092
Loctus
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Loctus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,324
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
This simply is not true. It could easily be someone who wanted to make the hand appear less suspicious for any number of reasons, including rumor control,
hiding the cheating but they're not involved, etc. You're scenario is most likely in my nonexpert opinion, but nowhere near VERY likely.
Loctus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #6093
Aceynine
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Guys i just found a clip that implicates the graphics department/ graphics guy i think. (At the very least its a god mode fold on the flop that i havent seen anywhere else.) This stream is gold. Mike has a notepad to mask his constant looking down. Look at what Mike Postle does on this flop with his overpair after you hear the commentators mention his opponent doesnt actually have J4 offsuit HE HAS JJ. But look at the graphics too. Weird ass hand as we have cards changing. Why would it show J4 if he actually had JJ though? But more weird is Mikes action with pocket 10s on a 2 7 4 board.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/306445878?t=5300s

The hand starts at 01:28:20

And right after the hand at 01:30:34 The commentator calls mike a god and they both give him godlike praise.

Edit: If the graphics on stream show J4 how would mike know it was JJ. I'm confused. Can someone tweet Berkey, Joey, / Doug this hand. Berkey has a video out about the rfid and the other hand that was suspect with graphics changing. What happened here?
At 1:30:06, commentator "OH Mike!" "Joe has jacks." Other commentator Mike's gonna fold" Then he folds pocket 10s on 2 7 4 board. Wouldn't you think Mike is listening to them? Lmao
Aceynine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #6094
SpursDynasty
grinder
 
SpursDynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 582
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Anyone have a top 10 video of the most suspicious hands from all the streams?
SpursDynasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:00 AM   #6095
Naismith
journeyman
 
Naismith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 231
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Guys i just found a clip that implicates the graphics department/ graphics guy i think. (At the very least its a god mode fold on the flop that i havent seen anywhere else.) This stream is gold. Mike has a notepad to mask his constant looking down. Look at what Mike Postle does on this flop with his overpair after you hear the commentators mention his opponent doesnt actually have J4 offsuit HE HAS JJ. But look at the graphics too. Weird ass hand as we have cards changing. Why would it show J4 if he actually had JJ though? But more weird is Mikes action with pocket 10s on a 2 7 4 board.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/306445878?t=5300s

The hand starts at 01:28:20

And right after the hand at 01:30:34 The commentator calls mike a god and they both give him godlike praise.

Edit: If the graphics on stream show J4 how would mike know it was JJ. I'm confused. Can someone tweet Berkey, Joey, / Doug this hand. Berkey has a video out about the rfid and the other hand that was suspect with graphics changing. What happened here?
Man, this is so interesting. My first thought was it proves someone is feeding him the hands since his graphics would be wrong, but it sounds like he could be getting the same feed directly to his phone with the correct cards rather than the graphics.

My second thought was this was a really good opportunity to provide cover if the graphics guy was in on it. All he had to do was leave them thinking it was J4 and Postle made an incorrect overpaid fold and it's at least one hand of evidence in their favor. I don't think it clears anyone as I'm sure they weren't thinking about this sort of thing.
Naismith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:00 AM   #6096
Grind On My Mind
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 325
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This stream was ran as a mix game of omaha and holdem. Mike was on his phone alot and you can see the screen here during the change from omaha to holdem. Is he prepping for god mode here?

52:31

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/400245056?t=3151s
Grind On My Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:29 AM   #6097
Michael Buble
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 339
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maradona10 View Post
To me it's just another example that who said "he has JJ" was in on it.
He didn't change the graphics but could have easily texted Mike that instead of J4 Joe had JJ. Otherwise it's not Mike's style to fold TT for 1 bet.
It's probably the same guy as the 68o/89s hand.
They mentioned his name both times: Taylor.

Commentators during this hand: "You don't mess with Mike P because he knows where he's at".
Michael Buble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:33 AM   #6098
PraguePoker
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 319
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggo View Post
Thanks PraguePoker for showing how Postle might defend himself. So if Postle does get a 'not guilty' verdict from Judge or Jury, waiting for headline to be 'greatest bluff of all time'.
Just to be clear, I think it's a terrible defense, and I think he's going down... But I'm just trying to put myself in his position (or his lawyer) and give it my best shot.

Having said all of that, it's disgusting what happened, and I hope all of the guilty people are forced to pay all of the money back, and are punished accordingly.
PraguePoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:37 AM   #6099
hemstock
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,623
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjackson2718 View Post


He bets 5k into 2.3k OTR to fold me off a chop. I remember thinking how absurd this HH was when I saw it 30 minutes later on the stream, but at the time had barely played with him and assumed he was clicking buttons and got lucky. Link to clip -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Dza9Z8LMo&t=258m45s
Another smoking hand right here. Absolutely no reason to overbet that river unless you know what your opponent has exactly. It's beyond absurd for any non cheating poker player to overbet there. You get owned when he calls with better and you make worse hands fold with that bet. Could have easily been up against a 7, 46s and better aces. BUT of course if he has the same hand as you that's the perfect bet.

This hand right here shows you how greedy and arrogant he got. There is no strategy to be subtle or try and disguise that he's cheating. He bought into the cult the stones casino built around him and thought I'm never gonna get caught. "Hey I know your cards, FOLD them while I steal your money you little *****". Chopping in one silly hand is not enough for him. He has to win the whole thing even when the action doesn't justify it.
hemstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:38 AM   #6100
Loctus
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Loctus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,324
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceynine View Post
At 1:30:06, commentator "OH Mike!" "Joe has jacks." Other commentator Mike's gonna fold" Then he folds pocket 10s on 2 7 4 board. Wouldn't you think Mike is listening to them? Lmao
How does he listen to them, through a ****ing time-warp? Their commentary takes place 30 minutes after the hand plays out
Loctus is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive