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Old 10-01-2019, 04:44 PM   #576
zizek
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PenelopeCruz View Post
This is truly disturbing as an example of how dangerous streaming games are. Mike Postle et al are obvious morons. What happens if (when?) smart and sophisticated people decide they want to cheat? Most streamed/televised games are way higher stakes. Most people are not this stupid.
Technology killed live poker before it killed online poker. The sophistication of the device demonstrated at Defcon shows that there is a large, recurrent market for cheating compared to relatively few incidents that fully come to light.

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Really hurts me to say this because when I played on Stones they were all super, super nice to me. Like an unbelievable level of hospitality from staff.

This is horrible for their room, it is without a doubt that this dude is cheating.
+1 to this. Really unfortunate situation all around.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:48 PM   #577
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I'm starting to think how streamed games can move forward from here, regardless of any guilt attributed or admitted by Mike.

They will need to be treated the same as regular tourney tables, with no phones if you have cards in front of you (ideally as soon as first card has been dealt).

I'm not saying that any phones should be banned, but they should be on the rail, in a bag/jacket or on a side-table. Hands should *generally* (i.e. within reason) be above the rail at all times, especially when a hand is in play.

I can actually see a situation now where RFID data will just go via wire to a hard drive under the table, then be retrieved later, i.e. we go from a 30 min delay to a day delay, with no wi-fi transmission, & no third party tech input to the graphics involved until the game is finished for that day.

The end of poker streaming as we know it. Thanks Mike!
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:49 PM   #578
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This is beyond epic.

There are a WHOLE LOTTA people involved in this (I think)...

Last edited by lovedaphils; 10-01-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:52 PM   #579
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ouirly View Post
And no cap pulled low hiding his eyes

But if you can cheat in cash, why not streamed fts? What was his posture and headwear like on his 36k spring classic win?

Any of his buds on this ft? Maybe it was someone else's turn that day
You mean this one??
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:53 PM   #580
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by zizek View Post
Technology killed live poker before it killed online poker. The sophistication of the device demonstrated at Defcon shows that there is a large, recurrent market for cheating compared to relatively few incidents that fully come to light.



+1 to this. Really unfortunate situation all around.
not to mention automatic shufflers. The new ones tell you which card is missing if there are <52 cards. Meaning it reads the cards. The way they work is an RNG determines the order of cards, it doesn't actually "shuffle". Also very disturbing.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:54 PM   #581
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348363451?t=04h09m15s
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:59 PM   #582
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Where do you feel comfortable playing after all the AI, bots on online sites, this situation...

Small buyin live tournaments that are never streamed?

All I really want to try going forward. Last wind outta my sails personally.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:05 PM   #583
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Just wanted to throw out the outside chance of a "lone wolf" theory. I don't think this is the most likely theory, but its worth considering the idea. The theory would be that he intercepts the rfid reader (wired) with some physical device, and has the outputs sent to his phone. If he is involved in production maybe at some point he had some time with the table setup.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:05 PM   #584
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by alecspade View Post
is this a joke? this is absurd, he's worse than someone at 2nl on stars
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:06 PM   #585
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by sirswish6 View Post
currently going thru all of stones videos on youtube to figure out his winrate/total winnings and im seeing mike in the 1 seat a lot
One analysis that could be used as evidence is his VPIP when anyone at the table has JJ or better. If it's extraordinarily low compared to his VPIP when that isn't the case, that strongly implies he knows the other peoples cards at the table.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:07 PM   #586
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by obummer View Post
In TT vs 88 hand Mike is clearly crotch texting with his phone... or in this case having hands sent to him... Looks like a cheater to me.
With his opponent sitting right next to him it's possible to get some sick live reads to play the hand as he did (of course with perfect information he would have checked turn). However, being on the phone is super suspicious. Are great players really playing on their phones during the middle of a big hand? If that's a trend throughout his other hands then that's super suspicious because one needs to focus on the game and the other players in order to gather all the information necessary to make optimal reads.


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Originally Posted by pokervangelist View Post
Based on his play versus similar flops no freaking way he is EVER folding KK there face up. His fanboys will defend him to the end....
He has fanboys? Either way, seems like a pretty easy fold against Jaman in that spot.


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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Not sure what this is supposed to prove. Folding an overpair when the top card pairs in a protected pot makes perfect sense. If it's because he would have boated up on the river, even if he was cheating he couldn't know that.
Depends on the exact method of cheating. The lawyer that was cheating in Austin a few years ago would have known that he was going to win the hand before the cards were even dealt.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:10 PM   #587
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If only we could get Charlie Carrel in here to vindicate Mike on the obvious livereads his opponents have. He doesn’t have explain to us the tells, but they’re there.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:11 PM   #588
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PenelopeCruz View Post
not to mention automatic shufflers. The new ones tell you which card is missing if there are <52 cards. Meaning it reads the cards. The way they work is an RNG determines the order of cards, it doesn't actually "shuffle". Also very disturbing.
Does the dealer not cut the cards right when it comes out of the machine? I don't think this thread needs to delve into crazy conspiracy theories about the shuffle machines.

For this particular cheating accusation, all that would be needed is a person related to the production just texting the player information, who is staring at his phone every hand. It seems based on the information presented in this thread of those things seem plausible. A rigged shuffle machine does not seem plausible to me.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:13 PM   #589
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Maxeth View Post
According to the stones, they’ve investigated and found no wrong doing. So what is it? Some big conspiracy with multiple people and the casino involved... or some donk on donk violence.
Donk on donk violence has variance.

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Edit: if the production team investigated themselves then yeah lol that’s a huge red flag
The moment the shill realizes that the gig is up?
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:14 PM   #590
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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So ridiculous
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:14 PM   #591
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Redgrape View Post
One analysis that could be used as evidence is his VPIP when anyone at the table has JJ or better. If it's extraordinarily low compared to his VPIP when that isn't the case, that strongly implies he knows the other peoples cards at the table.
I'm not sure if this would be a good analysis, in single raised pots or playing deep even with 96o he likely could still call if he knows v's hand. Easy to bluff them off bad runouts/you know you can stack them when you hit your two pairs+, especially with his maniac image.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:14 PM   #592
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Depends on the exact method of cheating. The lawyer that was cheating in Austin a few years ago would have known that he was going to win the hand before the cards were even dealt.
This is extremely unlikely to be the same circumstance. The RFID cards can't reliably be read on top of each other, whereas the infrared marked decks you're referencing had indications on the edges. Assuming Mike is cheating, it's most likely he only knows player holdings, and not what the flop/turn/river will be. That's also consistent with the 54o vs AK vs AK hand where he actually lost the first board run out - I doubt even the infrared reader could reliably identify that he would win on the second board.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:18 PM   #593
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by zica View Post
Wouldn't it be nice if the whole game was a set up, that they all knew it was fake and BS and they were just doing it to try to make the game more entertaining.
That's what I was thinking when Mike was in the booth with JFK. He'd give an explanation that didn't make sense then just start laughing, like he did everytime he'd put someone allin knowing they couldn't call.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:21 PM   #594
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Mar-a-Lago View Post
is this a joke? this is absurd, he's worse than someone at 2nl on stars
Even the commentators know. “A-Q won’t win, my money’s on the 9-5!”
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:22 PM   #595
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by pokergrader View Post
Does the dealer not cut the cards right when it comes out of the machine? I don't think this thread needs to delve into crazy conspiracy theories about the shuffle machines.

For this particular cheating accusation, all that would be needed is a person related to the production just texting the player information, who is staring at his phone every hand. It seems based on the information presented in this thread of those things seem plausible. A rigged shuffle machine does not seem plausible to me.
It was a comment on the advancement of technology and how dangerous it is for poker. Yes, a bit of a derail.

A rigged machine is perfectly plausible, it's literally a computer controlled machine with 52 slots that can read cards and place them in any order. I agree it has nothing to do with this incident directly. I agree that the fact that the cards are cut would likely require a rigged machine scam to involve a crooked dealer with card cutting skills.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:23 PM   #596
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Why is everyone talking RFID devices and whatnot? Wouldn’t the more likely method be that someone with access to the hole cards is just texting the villains’ cards to him and that’s why he’s constantly looking at his phone?
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:24 PM   #597
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by +EV Plays View Post
It's pretty clear that listening to Postle talk about hands he doesn't understand poker theory at all, from both his time in the booth and his replies on twitter.
That's the thing, Mike clearly isn't that good at poker. His live reads and tells explanation would be somewhat believable if he didn't spend so much time staring at his crotch.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:24 PM   #598
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Maxeth
This is what playing street poker and running like god looks like. Nobody would care or dare to accuse if this was garret instead of mike. Kinda reminds me of brad booth too. Maybe you should shut up and be thankful this guy is driving the action for all the generic nit pros to profit off of. It seems the average no limit nit cant even do that these days...

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If this was Garrett instead of mike Joey would be worshiping his sweaty nuts and getting him on the pod ASAP (wait he’s already done that). Nit pros are mad at a lag action player because he’s running hot at the moment.

Breaking down his game publicly and accusing him of seeing hole cards in a live game is 1. Unprofessional and 2. Ruining the much needed and missed action no limit has been missing for years and years.

This is why games have gone to ****. This is why no limit is basically dead. This is why most action poker players avoid casinos and play in private games instead.

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How many hours of footage do we have on mike vs garret? And how many total hands is that? Sample sizes are incredibly small and fortunately for mike it’s been great so far.

The nits and colluding pros ran off most of the action players in no limit, and for that I haven’t played a single hand of no limit in 2+ years. If the average poker game had at least 1 mike in them, the no limit boom would still be going strong.

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The action and positions are different. You cannot directly compare them together (and I hope whoever investigates realizes this.). Seems he understands ranges and his opponents love polarizing in spots where they never have it. Combine the live reads/ aspect it’s almost free money. Games at the stone look amazing.

Don’t bluff in spots where you have air 90% of the time against someone who knows what ranges and polarizing is and is clearly not intimidated by the money being played for

The most suspect hand is 45 vs ak ak

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If you win a bunch of money over a short amount of time in a small venue (like stones) people will accuse you of cheating or worse like physically threaten you/ try to follow you home/ run you out of game etc. He’s won too much money, too fast and now the pitch forks and conspiracy theorists have started the witch hunt

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NL games are fragile and if I was a reg at stones I would be pissed that a bunch of guys are scaring an action player off before the inevitable implosion that is waiting. Watching 15 hours of video and making wild speculations that is sure to ruin someone’s action is OOL. If there was undeniable proof that he is cheating then sure fire away. But all I see is a couple dozen hands of donk on donk aggression that doesn’t deserve nvg exposure.

I think we can all agree on one thing tho, cocaine and adderall is one helluva drug ain’t it

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It’s clear mike doesnt know exact hand holdings or he would be playing differently. Which means if he is cheating, it probably uses a binary value system (for speed and simplicity). But the live stream has a delay which prevents someone on the outside (or in the commentary booth) from attempting simple texts or the like.

He could be capturing the raw data and importing it into a simple program but that would depend on how the rfid information is transmitted, and how tech savvy he is. Sensitive data that transmits across casinos networks is not done on the free hotel lobby WiFi. There are laws in place that obligate companies to protect their network from the outside and enforce how the sensitive data is handled across the network. Mike better be a pentester or better if he chose this route. And if he did, he would be prosecuted under the full extent of the law.

So how exactly could he be cheating?

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So the theory that your basing these accusations and shaming is: a film/ production crew member (an employee of the casino and or licensed to work by the commission) has chosen to risk guaranteed, long jail sentences when caught, to split the profits of a small cash game?

You factor in the jail time and they probably won’t even average out more than minimum wage and a felony following you around for life lol. And that’s only factoring if it’s a 2 man job!

Or maybe the guy understands live poker very well and runs hotter than the sun (no different than the current pros you see at high stakes televised games)

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Matt Berkey is a sensitive douche who most likely started the rumors. If he’s invested in RFID then he must know how that data is transmitted from the sensors through the casinos protected network. This isn’t James Bond, hacking this especially in a 24x7 monitored environment is unlikely.

Stones investigated and found nothing... so it’s not faulty hardware or hacking. So you guys are basically accusing the stones live stream owner for being in on it. Again, unlikely considering what they have to lose.

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Depending on the range, most likely the data is transmitted through WiFi. An unsecured AP in a casino environment is extremely unlikely. And the network and network security team have to be involved in order for the data to get from point a to point b.

The point I’m making is it’s next to impossible for a 3rd party to hack into this. Mike is just good at poker at runs hot... or the show creator is in on cheat. If Berkey and co think the the shows creators are in on it they wtf are they playing in the first place?

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I don’t think Joey would take a bunch of adderall and spend 20+ hours of his life “investigating” because some random stones players sent him a pm. Someone he respects (Berkey) told him and that’s when this blew up and turned mikes life into hell.

Being suspicious isn’t enough to dragging this guys name through the mud and ruining all of his future action. You have to how he does it before making accusations and ruining this persons professional and personal life.

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There are a lot of posts implying mike has some sort of backdoor into the technology and im saying as a network security engineer, that it’s highly unlikely. You’re correct that if there is cheating, it has to be a simple relay between someone with access to BOTH the rfid information and the video feed.

According to the stones, they’ve investigated and found no wrong doing. So what is it? Some big conspiracy with multiple people and the casino involved... or some donk on donk violence.

Edit: if the production team investigated themselves then yeah lol that’s a huge red flag

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This guy isn't just running like a god. I've seen players hit the deck hard and run $600 into $25k within 5 hours at 10/20. Their particular playing style perfectly matched the cards being dealt and they could not make a wrong move. Another example, Jamie Gold winning the 2012 WSOP. At best, they run good a couple times a month and run like gods a couple times a year. They don't consistently run like that for long periods. No one expects them of cheating, and cheating allegations aren't taken lightly in the poker community.

It goes without saying, to call someone a cheat, you need serious proof. If multiple people are coming forward calling someone a cheat, isn't that enough reason to begin investigating? Do we need undeniable evidence to accuse someone of cheating? Absolutely not. Multiple allegations are more than enough. If we are wrong, then yes, there will be damage to his credibility etc. But what if he is cheating and we do nothing? What of the tens of thousands of dollars he is robbing from other players? What about the physiological damage he is doing to them and their game? He could end good player's careers like this. If he gets away with it, other players will also find a way to do what he's doing and our systems wont improve. Whether you like it or not, he is now in the court of public opinion, and we are doing the best we can with the evidence at our disposal to investigate the situation.

IMO, he is cheating. Consistently looking at his crotch before and during every hand. Making hero folds with TPTK for small money and always being right, making hero calls and insane bluffs with bottom pair when the opponent is weak, his dumb smirk whenever he's "bluffing" with the best hand knowing the opponent can't call. I could go on and on but I'm sure others, Joe Ingram/Doug Polk, will do a much better job in analyzing his play. Its funny, that he is so bad at poker that he makes it obvious he is cheating. Give this tech to any avg reg and he would never get caught.

Just listen to Postle talk about hands in an interview with the commentator. He sounds like he just started playing yesterday. Matt Berkey makes crazy moves that many poker players don't understand, but listen to him explain the hand and he sounds like a genius. Postle's like, "well I had a feeling, and I drank some wine, and yeah I had a feeling..." There is just no way with his level of thinking, his tendencies, that he is a consistent winner in the game, not just a consistent winner, but NEVER making mistakes, which is ironically, his biggest mistake and will inevitably be his undoing. The stats are something like winning 24/24 sessions, and he's winning HUGE each session at a 5/5 game, 16k+ or that ballpark.

And you being a "network security engineer" and saying something is impossible to hack just sounds wrong to me, I'm sure you've heard of social hacking. There doesn't have to be some huge conspiracy with multiple people at Stone in on it. I understand where you are coming from, but also consider that if there are this many people accusing him of cheating, it is worth an investigation. I mean, people cheat at chess for crying out loud.

Last edited by wiiziwiig; 10-01-2019 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:25 PM   #599
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lovedaphils View Post
Where do you feel comfortable playing after all the AI, bots on online sites, this situation...

Small buyin live tournaments that are never streamed?

All I really want to try going forward. Last wind outta my sails personally.
for a recreational player, playing against an AI or against a good reg is probably going to net him the same losses, playing against someone who sees your cards though lol, you are rekt
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:26 PM   #600
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by alecspade View Post
its disgusting honestly, just sad to watch what he did to these people.
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