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Old 10-07-2019, 02:22 PM   #5476
Dream Crusher
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Thanks, I was missing this file for some reason.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:24 PM   #5477
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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You guys are way overanalyzing your hypothetical court room scenarios. What would really happen is he gets arrested on like 50+ felonies and makes a plea deal, and he would get absolutely rekt in a civil case.
What if he doesnt? The community can still blacklist him and not give him action when he sits down. If everyone stood up when he sits down, he cant cheat anyone.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:25 PM   #5478
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Does anyone think this incident will have a negative impact on poker legislation in the states? As someone that lives in texas and is only able to play live poker because of a loophole " we have cardrooms that don't take rake but charge an hourly fee", I would hate to see this have a negative impact on live/online poker legislation in the future.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:30 PM   #5479
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I am not trolling anyone, but I felt I have to say something about this. Am I the only guy defending this guy here? I could be waaay off! I know that. But to me it's innocent until proven otherwise. And if I hear Matusow saying there is nothing wrong with the winrate. At my local casino I 've seen pigs fly lemme tell you. If you have weak opponents I could imagine +100k in 30 sessions at 1-3 ( not sure what they straddeled but I've seen a USD 750 straddle at a 1 3 game veronica brill was playing in. Have you seen that? Watch her YouTube..
If this is true, then I would start to question whether there is cheating going on at your room and maybe look for somewhere else to play.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:35 PM   #5480
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I see that Kevin Racks played with Mike Postle on 2019.07.20 Veronica & Friends with BotLady & Brent: https://youtu.be/uQujzYc-lrk

That was 6 days before Kevin Racks passed away. Not sure if anyone has reviewed that session but it seems to be around the time that Postle was taking a break from cheating.

Kevin Racks also played at least one other session with Mike Postle below:



edit: I located this stream on Twitch. It is July 24, 2019 (2 days before Kevin Racks passed away). https://www.twitch.tv/videos/4575693...ives&sort=time

Edit: Youtube Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiYBxMOHIZ8&t=1669s
Mike wasn't cheating in the July 24th 2019 stream. Much of the stream he had his hat backwards and was nursing a relative short stack (~$1k). He ended up getting stacked with an under full K7 vs QQ and rather than rebuy he just left (playing without seeing your opponents cards sucks!)
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:42 PM   #5481
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by THAY3R View Post
You guys are way overanalyzing your hypothetical court room scenarios. What would really happen is he gets arrested on like 50+ felonies and makes a plea deal, and he would get absolutely rekt in a civil case.
Exactly. It would be very costly to fight and I do not believe Postle has that kind of resources.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:42 PM   #5482
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Yes, he was on the production team.

I don't think you are missing anything on Lance from all that I've seen. His name wasn't mentioned for a while because there's almost nothing fishy to connect, even circumstantially, whereas you can't say that about Taylor or Justin. I fully agree that anyone who has ever had production access should be looked into, including Lance, but there has been no detail or suspicious event, or lack of Godmode in his absence, that corroborates any of it.

Meanwhile, Godmode continued when Lance was no longer on the production team, and even while he was on vacation himself.

If something comes up that's credible, by all means, it's worthy of investigation. I just hate to see some people saying definitive things without even circumstantial evidence.

If there is something I overlooked, please, someone let me know.
I will admit that I was on the the more vocal ones saying we need to take a look at Lance. I did not in any way say it was definitely him but rather anyone with his background should be looked at. This clearly has some type of technical component to the whole thing and he looks to have the right no how to pull something like this off. With that being said, so does anyone who was on the production team so I don’t want to definitively say it’s this person or that person.

You clearly know Lance from your posts. Have you chatted with him about the situation and gotten his take on everything? Does he think mike is cheating? I feel like a big head scratching piece to this whole saga is that none of the commentators/employees have spoken up.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:44 PM   #5483
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

He looks at them when he laughs in their face and shoves knowing they can't call. I've seen enough to be convinced he's cheating, now we need to find his accomplices.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:45 PM   #5484
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Outside of Veronica and poker momma. Sure maybe some of theme have made vague comments but if I was in their shoes I’d be openly answering questions or talking to the poker community.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:45 PM   #5485
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If someone is going to subscribe to the fallacy of appeal to authority, at least pick a better authority than Mike Matusow.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:45 PM   #5486
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 10-07-2019, 02:48 PM   #5487
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I will admit that I was on the the more vocal ones saying we need to take a look at Lance. I did not in any way say it was definitely him but rather anyone with his background should be looked at. This clearly has some type of technical component to the whole thing and he looks to have the right no how to pull something like this off. With that being said, so does anyone who was on the production team so I don’t want to definitively say it’s this person or that person.

You clearly know Lance from your posts. Have you chatted with him about the situation and gotten his take on everything? Does he think mike is cheating? I feel like a big head scratching piece to this whole saga is that none of the commentators/employees have spoken up.
I am objective enough to agree, everyone with access should be looked at. I'd look for the simplest explanations for Lance's two appearances on stream and there's nothing suspicious about either imo. But again, we agree, everyone with access should be looked at.

Honestly, Lance just wants to keep his job. This kind of gets lost in all of this controversy, but Stones is a great card room, with 99% awesome employees. The management is pretty good, the owners that I know are folks with integrity, even if I disagree with their handling of this situation.

I don't want to speak for him publicly if he isn't going to, but we've talked about everything.

I don't think there's any upside for commentators/staff voicing their opinion.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:49 PM   #5488
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yea at this point there's enough circumstantial evidence piling up and the most logical explanation for his behavior is consistent with him cheating by seeing the cards. Just coldcalling 3bets for $700 w/ 54o and other plays that no player - rational or irrational, including him before July 18 2018 would ever make? He can try to explain all this but dodging questions by talking about your daughter or Prahlad won't work anymore, and he'll have to be spot on for quite a while - I'm thinking it's getting likely a court won't be against anally probing all of this.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:56 PM   #5489
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The commentators talk is major hindsight bias and people clutching at straws.

The whole Postle God memes

I think its likely that JFK was the man who implemented that. Now whether that is because JFK is a complete moron and believed that Postle was the greatest crushers of all time, or they were created in order to build a narrative that Postle was indeed a god to help hide the cheating.

Commentators talking to Mike on stream

All of these commentators must live in the area. Mike clearly spends a lot of time in poker rooms, so its possible they have known him for years even before the Stones stream. He has the person of a nice guy (conmen always are). Of course they are friendly with him. And also a commentators job is to get info about the hands, so yeah you are gonna see them go from the booth to the table to talk to the players.

Not wanting to rock the boat

How many jobs in poker like this are there? None of the commentators are great poker minds. All of their styles and thought processes fit this stream perfectly! - a friendly, local live low stakes donk fest.

We don't know their financial situation. Maybe this job was the difference between making rent or not per month. So yeah they made have been suspicious or heard rumours, but it's hard to pull that trigger.

Also the commentators switch up so often it would have taken some time to really start suspecting. Remember we are watching these hands in short clips, back to back, time and time again and knowing exactly what to look for. They are working, dealing with chat etc for 4 hours and then might not have another gig for a month.

It's very easy to explain 1 of Mike's sessions as just some punter crushing. We've all been at a table with a guy like that.

Being directly in one it

I just don't see this. You are risking the operation being leaked AND having to give someone else a cut. This is a 3 man operation at most IMO.

I still think Mike bought their friendship with the odd tip here and there and also getting dinners etc.

The only commentator who might be in on it is this guy. He is the only one who I get the wrong kind of vibe from and he has on numerous occasions talked down to Kasey and Veronica.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHmuAqJ_sVo
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:56 PM   #5490
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
lolz and NO.


you watch too much Law and Order
You couldn't be more wrong - the bar for expert witnesses is so high especially in fields where the science is more established (like math). The judge not only has to qualify you on each case, but you can only testify to facts that can be peer-reviewed because you're not testifying on *opinion* you're testifying on *fact*

This isn't some shitty field like forensic science where even the FBI can get away with testifying to bunk **** - I have friends who are well cited and publishes who weren't qualified based on arguable bounds around their expertise

Just google "who can be an expert witness" - and you run into all sorts like this:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_702

and the fact that prosecutors and defense council don't let just any yahoo with a grey beard and patches on his coat elbows testify because they understand that appeals can be fought and won or lost on the qualifications of experts alone
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:59 PM   #5491
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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You couldn't be more wrong - the bar for expert witnesses is so high especially in fields where the science is more established (like math). The judge not only has to qualify you on each case, but you can only testify to facts that can be peer-reviewed because you're not testifying on *opinion* you're testifying on *fact*

This isn't some shitty field like forensic science where even the FBI can get away with testifying to bunk **** - I have friends who are well cited and publishes who weren't qualified based on arguable bounds around their expertise

Just google "who can be an expert witness" - and you run into all sorts like this:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_702

and the fact that prosecutors and defense council don't let just any yahoo with a grey beard and patches on his coat elbows testify because they understand that appeals can be fought and won or lost on the qualifications of experts alone

The other side of it is that in CA specifically, since Brown v Plata, prosecutors are reluctant to go after felonies not involving violence, because our prisons are overcrowded, and have been ordered by the Supreme Court to have reduced prisoners.

We are seeing extremely violent people let out early due to this, and prosecutors unwilling to go after big sentences.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:00 PM   #5492
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Considering how large and diverse this thread is perhaps it's a good idea to split it up so that everyone doesn't have to sift through pages of tangents of no interest to them. Here are some suggestions for sub-threads:

Mike Postle cheating allegations - 2+2 Members Investigation
Mike Postle cheating allegations - Legal Discussion
Mike Postle cheating allegations - Implications for industry/poker
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:01 PM   #5493
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MasterLJ View Post
I am objective enough to agree, everyone with access should be looked at. I'd look for the simplest explanations for Lance's two appearances on stream and there's nothing suspicious about either imo. But again, we agree, everyone with access should be looked at.

Honestly, Lance just wants to keep his job. This kind of gets lost in all of this controversy, but Stones is a great card room, with 99% awesome employees. The management is pretty good, the owners that I know are folks with integrity, even if I disagree with their handling of this situation.

I don't want to speak for him publicly if he isn't going to, but we've talked about everything.

I don't think there's any upside for commentators/staff voicing their opinion.
I thought u said before that he no longer works there?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:01 PM   #5494
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by TboneHadMore View Post
If someone was changing the display of mikes actual cards on the screen, how has it not occurred to any of you internet dicks that other players cards could have been displayed incorrectly as well.

A hand that you just skip over as normal could seem very different if you found out they had 89s rather than 99.
4 posts in and you claim to know everything that has been posted here? We have gone over the graphics change ad nauseam. most likely, his cards werent wrong, an insider changed the graphics. and by your logic, then tbones cards could be wrong too, so why are you attacking his play if theres a chance everyones cards are always wrong?

educate yourself and watch Matt Berkey's podcast. It'll probably just go over your head but worth a shot.

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Old 10-07-2019, 03:01 PM   #5495
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MasterLJ View Post
I am objective enough to agree, everyone with access should be looked at. I'd look for the simplest explanations for Lance's two appearances on stream and there's nothing suspicious about either imo. But again, we agree, everyone with access should be looked at.

Honestly, Lance just wants to keep his job. This kind of gets lost in all of this controversy, but Stones is a great card room, with 99% awesome employees. The management is pretty good, the owners that I know are folks with integrity, even if I disagree with their handling of this situation.

I don't want to speak for him publicly if he isn't going to, but we've talked about everything.

I don't think there's any upside for commentators/staff voicing their opinion.

Wow I actually think the exact opposite. I think employees/staff staying silent is more damning then them speaking out. So you are telling me that Lance (a member or former member of the production crew) thinks that there was cheating and has his theory on how it was done? I would be interested in hearing more about that. I’m sure all of us would.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:04 PM   #5496
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I thought u said before that he no longer works there?
I said he's no longer on the streaming team. He absolutely still works there.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:05 PM   #5497
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by 001001 View Post
You couldn't be more wrong - the bar for expert witnesses is so high especially in fields where the science is more established (like math). The judge not only has to qualify you on each case, but you can only testify to facts that can be peer-reviewed because you're not testifying on *opinion* you're testifying on *fact*

This isn't some shitty field like forensic science where even the FBI can get away with testifying to bunk **** - I have friends who are well cited and publishes who weren't qualified based on arguable bounds around their expertise

Just google "who can be an expert witness" - and you run into all sorts like this:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_702

and the fact that prosecutors and defense council don't let just any yahoo with a grey beard and patches on his coat elbows testify because they understand that appeals can be fought and won or lost on the qualifications of experts alone
Would a mathematician/statistician and professional poker player like Liv Boeree or Bill Chen qualify as an expert witness?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:06 PM   #5498
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MasterLJ View Post
The other side of it is that in CA specifically, since Brown v Plata, prosecutors are reluctant to go after felonies not involving violence, because our prisons are overcrowded, and have been ordered by the Supreme Court to have reduced prisoners.

We are seeing extremely violent people let out early due to this, and prosecutors unwilling to go after big sentences.
Bear in mind, there are also potential federal offenses here. And it's also a kind of "fun" case for prosecutors, who can look all high and mighty busting up the poker cheating scam, the same way federal prosecutors are having some fun with the college admissions scandal case.

So you shouldn't be reductive about this. The biggest problem isn't that prosecutors aren't going to want to prosecute because of the merits, or prison overcrowding; the biggest problem is that there's an industry that isn't going to want this to be prosecuted.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:07 PM   #5499
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Clay Berlin View Post
I find the commentator discussion interesting.

There would have been a lot of conversation about Postle around the poker room during this time period.

How could there not be? The guy was winning at a rate that made no statistical sense over a very long period of time in a game that apparently was the only one he played in during that same time period, apparently racking up and leaving after most broadcasts.

Many of the commentators worked multiple streams while observing crazy, seemingly inexplicable decision making, they had to be talking among themselves and with others about the Mike Postle phenomenon they were witnessing.

I find it hard to believe that while either talking with each other, or with more knowledgeable poker professionals that they didn't realize that something very weird (i.e. impossible) was going on here.

To see many of them go the route of turning this guy into a poker legend, including flashing stupid memes and silly nicknames, naming losing players victims etc.. is disturbing. There was plenty of time to perhaps back away from some of this stuff and exit with some dignity intact.

One clip that a gentlemen furnished where someone in the stream chat asked if Mike ever lost was somewhat revealing, it was very obvious that one of the commentators was extremely uncomfortable with the question.

Now whether they were actively involved or not is a different question, but if they had reason to believe that many of the people, who i'm sure they saw perhaps quite frequently around the card room, were being cheated by a player in the games they were commenting on, well that is something that that they are going to have to live down and live with.
The analysis from the booth is suspicious, often justifying mikes nuts lines. The clip where someone in the chat asks if mike ever loses is priceless,the silence is deafening. Kacey shifts in her chair and looks uncomfortable but says nothing so the bald guy with the beard chimes in with something about mikes high variance style and then it's on to the next hand. Nothing to see here.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:07 PM   #5500
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Wow I actually think the exact opposite. I think employees/staff staying silent is more damning then them speaking out. So you are telling me that Lance (a member or former member of the production crew) thinks that there was cheating and has his theory on how it was done? I would be interested in hearing more about that. I’m sure all of us would.
From the perspective of Stones, when running an internal investigation you don't want to leak information that could be relevant or helpful. An employee not in the investigation team, and an employee as we all agree, who should be looked at, should probably not be making public comments. I think that's reasonable. I think we have to separate what we want to see/hear from what's best for an internal investigation (assuming we have faith in it).

I'm not sure how much faith I have in the internal investigation, but JFK has been on leave, which is the step I needed to see to ever consider playing there (even if my suspicions have changed).
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