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Old 10-05-2019, 08:19 PM   #4226
Suit
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Rather than calling him out on it when they first suspected it, they really should've just kept quiet and tried catching him in the act. Now all evidence is most likely gonzo and probably no chance of ever proving anything.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:19 PM   #4227
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Since they keep coming up, here's an overview of some bad theories which I very much doubt and the reasons why. Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything here.

Using a keyfob/bracelet infrared camera and marked deck (video)

Doubtful for many reasons. First of all, for this to work the deck must be carefully positioned in front of the camera for a second. This requires the camera to be on the felt (not the rail), and for all dealers to be accomplices (On Stones Live, dealers are rotated out just like at any other poker table.) It also requires getting a special deck into the game, which would also have to be a functional RFID deck. Also, his actions suggest he doesn't know upcoming community cards (eg. always folding flop/turn with low equity, never calling and binking, folding when he would have binked, pot controlling when opponent has a lot of equity and waiting for brick turns/rivers rather than getting it in on the flop)

Reading the RFID cards

Not possible. The cards are passive RFID. They do not actively emit a signal and must be activated by the reader on the table. It wouldn't be possible to read cards across the table.

Hacking the table/Going solo

Doubtful. Postle has ties to the company that set up Stones Live stream, so a theory that he installed some kind of backdoor into the table that would send him the RFID info seems to fit. However, we saw Postle play humanly at times, that coincide with when Justin was away. If he did not need an accomplice he would be able to play perfectly the entire time.

Accessing the raw stream through Twitch

Nonsense. The raw video feed would not be uploaded to Twitch. The production crew enter the betting action in real time, then the commentators are shown that feed with the graphics overlaid on a 30 minute delay, then the feed with the commentary is finally streamed as it happens. It is not delayed on Twitch's end. So you wouldn't be able to see anything with Twitch credentials.

Using some kind of code or signaling device

This would make sense, if Mike was trying harder not to get caught. However we can see on the video that when he is godmoding he is always either looking at his crotch phone or wearing his baggy hat. Also, he doesn't just know when he is ahead or behind, he knows exact hole cards even when the hand is multiway. That much data would be hard to transmit with a basic signaling code. It seems much more likely that he is just receiving hole cards in clear text.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:20 PM   #4228
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jdsX8vkMI&t=364s

1:08:00-1:09:30 listening to this makes me sick.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:23 PM   #4229
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
I agree some of the commentators are in on it

They also totally brand this guy, they have meme's about him
Even on the stream they feature his twitter handle.
Meh, I disagree that commentators are in on it simply bc thats more hands in the cookie jar plus more risk to the ones involved. I also disagree that he did it by himself. The 3 man job theory seems most feasible. Guy at the table, the floorman and the graphics guy.

I think the commentators reactions could just be chalked up to the group think and culture that Justin ran. They were just following the leader.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:24 PM   #4230
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Bizarro Postle in this one: https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=2h22m24s
  • sitting in seat 5, can't look at his crotch
  • keys not on the table
  • left hand not under the table
  • wearing sunglasses

Watched a few hands, I don't think he's superusing in this one, he's running so good he doesn't even have to.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:24 PM   #4231
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it_LQKh0Yfg

Any PLO experts want to take a look at this stream to see if there are any suspicious hands? Justin is playing in this game for the first 3:24:00 and then Mike joins the game at 3:27:00. Also, why the hell is Justin playing in this game???
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:24 PM   #4232
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by bizkit View Post
Where are your samples of live win rates from?
WOW ten year old account and 22 posts so far. Did you ever get your money from AP?
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:25 PM   #4233
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Are we all in agreement that it's in the hat though? Or at least that that's one component some amount of the time, if not all
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:25 PM   #4234
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
I agree some of the commentators are in on it

They also totally brand this guy, they have meme's about him
Even on the stream they feature his twitter handle.
I doubt most of the commentators are in on the cheat. Hell, the whistleblower was one of the commentators. I think Justin/the producers were really trying to create their own Garrett and instructed everyone to be hyping Postle. They were trying to become a huge stream by having this absurdly good player at the table so they wanted all their commentators sucking his dick as much as possible.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:25 PM   #4235
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Since they keep coming up, here's an overview of some bad theories which I very much doubt and the reasons why. Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything here.
Can you do the same with current standing good theories?
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:28 PM   #4236
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
Rather than calling him out on it when they first suspected it, they really should've just kept quiet and tried catching him in the act. Now all evidence is most likely gonzo and probably no chance of ever proving anything.
Yeah seems almost like whoever was responsible for investigated it wanted to not catch him. Seems like it should have been easy to catch him in the act.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:31 PM   #4237
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Natamus View Post
Gentlemen can we quell the bickering and dick measuring about math superiority and please stay focused on the obvious cheating and who, if anyone was working with Mike
I think if you're going to use math as a primary metric to judge someone it should make sense. To me the way it's been presented by a few posters does not.

It's fine to call a cheater a cheater but don't say it's because the math of his win rate / VPIP / "standard deviations" beyond the mean when you can't even cite an actual sample.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:32 PM   #4238
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)



they got him boys, they finally got him
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:33 PM   #4239
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
Rather than calling him out on it when they first suspected it, they really should've just kept quiet and tried catching him in the act. Now all evidence is most likely gonzo and probably no chance of ever proving anything.
I guess i've watched too many episodes of Forensic Files where suspects get convicted of murder because the shadow of a tree on a vhs tape destroys their alibi but it seems to me police will have a ton of evidence regardless of what is destroyed.

First of all, there are hundreds of hours of recordings. Most crimes are committed off camera. This is done in plain sight. Tons of data there to be analyzed.

There are also probably financial transactions related to the purchase of cheating equipment. There are most likely phone/text records between the perps that the perps will be unable to delete. There are possibly transaction records on the servers or network that will correspond to cheating activity.

Its not like this was a one time occurrence. This cheating went on dozens of times over a 1+ year period and it has all been recorded. It probably won't be that hard for investigators to determine who was helping Postle cheat on any given day given all the information that will be at their disposal.

BTW, there is probably a reason Mike Postle hasn't slept in a couple days and I don't think it's because he thinks he'll be found innocent.

Last edited by Dream Crusher; 10-05-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:33 PM   #4240
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by IQofTwoPlusTwo View Post
WOW ten year old account and 22 posts so far. Did you ever get your money from AP?
I did. Lol you looking back at historical posts instead of answering my questions...cool.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:34 PM   #4241
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankoblanco View Post
Are we all in agreement that it's in the hat though? Or at least that that's one component some amount of the time, if not all
At this point I'd say plausible at best. Definitely not confirmed. The phone for sure, but IDK about the hat.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:36 PM   #4242
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jdsX8vkMI&t=364s

Timestamp: 1:13:45

Guy in the middle almost EXPOSES the whole operation!!!!
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:36 PM   #4243
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

how is the gambling hall not being held responsible here? This was a live feed hosted by the casino - they have a responsibility to the players to make sure security is good.

Also - why are people even still playing at the casino, they appear to trying to cover this up. Their first "investigation" uncovered nothing of which no results were shared. Where is the proof that they even had conducted/completed this? Now they are hosting a 2nd "investigation" for which the lead is the owners personal attorney?

What an absolute joke.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:38 PM   #4244
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joepickems View Post
whats up with Harlan being in alot of these hands. do you think he is a shill and in on the take just to bloat the pots, gets his money back at the end of the night? how can Harlan day in and day out watch this guy dominate. we see ppl fold out any hands mike is part of because of suspicion or scared...
This is absurd and Harlan is a fixture in non streamed games around Sacramento and has been for years and his results and play style are consistently similar on stream and off. Stop with this.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:39 PM   #4245
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post


they got him boys, they finally got him
^

We needed something like this in the thread. Well done!
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:39 PM   #4246
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onehandfold View Post
Can you do the same with current standing good theories?
I guess so. Would be a bit harder because I'd have to dig up supporting video.

Off the top of my head these are the things that most people seem to agree on and that there is supporting evidence of

1. Postle had knowledge of opponents' hole cards on stream (proof: results, absurd lines taken)
1a. It appears he has the same info that is displayed on the stream (eg. when the RFID cards cannot be read, he cannot make sick reads)
1b. His lines indicate he knows opponents' exact hole cards and not just whether he is ahead or behind (eg. calling with correct pot odds, folding seemingly strong draws when he is crushed)

2. Postle likely received hole card info on his phone (staring at crotch phone)
2a. When phones were banned at table, he switched to bone conductor headphones tucked under his hat (hat became bulky after a certain date, would sometimes press against the sides of his hat during hands)

3. Postle likely had an accomplice feeding him info (No credible theory how he would be able to cheat by himself)
3a. It would be possible for someone with access to the raw stream, such as production staff, to see the cards and convey that data in real time
3b. Postle stopped god-moding for a brief period when certain production staff were away

Last edited by DK Barrel; 10-05-2019 at 08:42 PM. Reason: added 1b.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:39 PM   #4247
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

thank god SVP broke the story bc these guys butchered it


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Old 10-05-2019, 08:41 PM   #4248
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jdsX8vkMI&t=364s

Timestamp: 1:13:45

Guy in the middle almost EXPOSES the whole operation!!!!

ok this interview with drunk postle is f****** GOLD
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:42 PM   #4249
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by erc007 View Post
Pretty sure the good ones (commentators/color/announcers etc.) can do both. They're not mutually exclusive ffs. If they aren't (doing any) analysis, then wtf are they "commenting" on when they're talking about a game of strategy?
The thing people need to remember is that these announcers had seen Mike P. make crazy plays/ folds many times before. So, I don't think we can just assume... Oh, they must be in on it, etc. It does seem to me that sometimes even realize Mike's play is out of line. Which is why we saw odd looks or comments. Hopefully in short order, we will know what happened. Thanks to everyone for helping to bring this to light.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:44 PM   #4250
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkit View Post
I think if you're going to use math as a primary metric to judge someone it should make sense. To me the way it's been presented by a few posters does not.

It's fine to call a cheater a cheater but don't say it's because the math of his win rate / VPIP / "standard deviations" beyond the mean when you can't even cite an actual sample.
His win rate is roughly comparable to that of Potripper, if not higher. While I don't know what you mean by 'sample', it's an example.

But on top of that, it's hard to overlook how much time he spends staring at his phone on top of his dick once the hole cards are all dealt. And how he sits close to the table and uses his left arm as a bar to shield his lap from view. And how his 'high variance' style is accompanied by remarkably low variance in his winning both across and within sessions. And how he virtually never gets stacked running a bluff, like he knows what his opponent(s) hold and so when they're highly unlikely to call. And on, and on, and on.

Last edited by namisgr11; 10-05-2019 at 09:04 PM.
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