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Old 10-04-2019, 08:14 PM   #3401
Alekhine
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by zica View Post
I didn't read this post but the internet is bad enough, I certainly don't think a recap from a 1 post "stranger" should be trusted. Sorry if you're just trying to help.
Ok now I know how to get hundreds of posts under my belt is to type impulsive things randomly without thinking or reading. Love the welcoming attitude you and others are bringing to the community btw. Don't think I'll feel like contributing in the future. Thanks. (Just so you know, 2+2 is on the internet)
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:14 PM   #3402
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
What's Postle's diagnosis?
A desperate show off attention seeker.

When the dust settles, his idea of cheating by playing attention grabbing indefensibly weak hands will be seen as flawed, whereas if he had played strong starting hands that made sense to play no one would have objected to his success.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:14 PM   #3403
7_2_Offsuit
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dvicious View Post
This is pretty damning too since it appears to be the same "Taylor" that works at stones and is possibly a co-conspirator. The fact that MP is running a huge bluff and getting "caught" by someone that might be an accomplice is pretty sketch.

Taking into account that there's now some evidence that community cards were possibly known ahead of time picking JJ vs 72 w/ an AAx board is the perfect set up. Have MP 3-bet knowing AAx was coming then triple barrel into Taylor effectively chip dumping to a co-conspirator then also using it as "proof" of bluffs gone wrong.


I'VE BEEN FOUND OUT......but sorry to disappoint, I'm just some calling station from Arizona who can't fold a pair.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:16 PM   #3404
jal300
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by blankoblanco View Post
What's interesting to think about is that DNA evidence is often used for pretty automatic convictions in court. The statistics behind Postle's hands are literally more compelling than DNA evidence. Statistically speaking it is more likely to get a false positive from a DNA test than for Postle to have done this legitimately. Yet no court will understand poker or statistics well enough to grasp this, so it all comes down to if people rat him out.
At the end of the day a long shot is a long shot: most people will understand that. DNA is different in that average everyday people accept DNA findings as bullet proof, DNA is perceived by the general population a certain way. I don't know what the average everyday person "thinks" about poker winrates, etc.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:17 PM   #3405
DonWon
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by mrtoodles View Post
I am a criminal defense attorney in CA. I've played on the Stones Live game, though not against Mike, and I've given this a lot of thought over the last few dsys.

The meat of the charges against Mike would be violations of Penal Code Sec. 332. That code says that cheating at a game to gain an unfair advantage over other players means that your winnings are fraudulently obtained, and it is punishable as larceny of the amount obtained.

Larceny is punishable as a misdemeanor (maximum 6 months in jail) if the amount stolen is $950 or less. It can be a felony, grand theft, if the amount is greater than $950.

I think there'd be a strong argument that Mike could not just be prosecuted for each individual session, as you speculate. You're right. He could and likely would be prosecuted for each individual session.

More than that though, I think that Mike could face a distinct felony charge of grand theft for every single pot won where he profited more than $950.

The first grand theft charge he was convicted of could carry up to 3 years in jail. Each additional count could carry an additional 8 months.

That thought is really just an exercise in what-ifs though. He wouldn't ever be charged in that manner, because:

1. Proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he cheated during a session is significantly easier and less time-consuming than proving cheating in individual hands, and

2. At ~60 cheating sessions, that's more than enough potential jail time to throw around at the negotiating table, and easily enough to satisfy any reasonable opinion on what would be a just sentence.

Details that may be somewhat peculiar to California, if anybody cares (this is all assuming Mike doesn't just receive probation. I can't fathom that he would.):

- In this circumstance, sentences on individual counts could be run concurrently, in whole or in part. Going down on 60 counts doesn't automatically equate to a 40+ year sentence.

- Because of prison overcrowding in California, assuming that Mike has no prior serious or violent felony offenses, and isn't a registered sex offender, he'd serve the custody portion of his sentence in jail, not prison.

- Mike would be presumptively elligible for a "split sentence" on his jail time. A portion of his sentence would be served in custody. The remainder would be served on "mandatory supervision." He'd effectively be serving the rest of his sentence on probation, and could return to custody for some or all whatever time remains on his sentence if he violated.

- Assuming Mike didn't lose good time or work time credits for disciplinary reasons in jail, he'd only actually serve half of the custody time imposed. It's also possible that he could serve a portion of the custody time at home in an ankle monitor.





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What about being blacklisted by GC and every single casino known to man?
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:20 PM   #3406
dfb89
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Can someone give updates on what's happened if anything since SportsCenter episode last night
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:22 PM   #3407
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Alekhine View Post
Ok now I know how to get hundreds of posts under my belt is to type impulsive things randomly without thinking or reading. Love the welcoming attitude you and others are bringing to the community btw. Don't think I'll feel like contributing in the future. Thanks. (Just so you know, 2+2 is on the internet)
Don't take one person's dismissal as representative of the 2+2 community. I found your summary rather well written and appreciated.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:31 PM   #3408
DanishDennis
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think this is the same technology as in the books at the libary? If so it can read at least 15 books on top of eachother in the correct order. So why not 30-40-52 cards? Maybe he has his own reader somewhere in the table where the dealer puts the deck, maybe even before the hands starts so he knows whos dealt what all the time?

That combined with the other stuff makes him super super user.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:34 PM   #3409
adam levine
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Taylor in video is Taylor Carroll.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:35 PM   #3410
momentaryblip
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Sorry if this was posted already. Pretty interesting possibility...

https://twitter.com/vdthemyk/status/...390648832?s=20

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Old 10-04-2019, 08:39 PM   #3411
Manner Please
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
At the end of the day a long shot is a long shot: most people will understand that. DNA is different in that average everyday people accept DNA findings as bullet proof, DNA is perceived by the general population a certain way. I don't know what the average everyday person "thinks" about poker winrates, etc.
I've met people who've played a little bit of poker who said "yeah it's a skill game, that's why the same 5 guys are at the WSOP final table every single year." Right, except that's a quote from Rounders and not remotely true, but gives the general public the impression that the best poker players do in fact soul read regularly.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:41 PM   #3412
Manner Please
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by momentaryblip View Post
Sorry if this was posted already. Pretty interesting possibility...

https://twitter.com/vdthemyk/status/...390648832?s=20

It's a dumb theory because JFK doesn't need to hack into the wifi, he already has the password.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:43 PM   #3413
Key Guy
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by momentaryblip View Post
Sorry if this was posted already. Pretty interesting possibility...

https://twitter.com/vdthemyk/status/...390648832?s=20

This is interesting and if true proves Justin's claims of a thorough investigation are a complete joke.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:45 PM   #3414
wiiziwiig
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtoodles View Post
I am a criminal defense attorney in CA. I've played on the Stones Live game, though not against Mike, and I've given this a lot of thought over the last few dsys.

The meat of the charges against Mike would be violations of Penal Code Sec. 332. That code says that cheating at a game to gain an unfair advantage over other players means that your winnings are fraudulently obtained, and it is punishable as larceny of the amount obtained.

Larceny is punishable as a misdemeanor (maximum 6 months in jail) if the amount stolen is $950 or less. It can be a felony, grand theft, if the amount is greater than $950.

I think there'd be a strong argument that Mike could not just be prosecuted for each individual session, as you speculate. You're right. He could and likely would be prosecuted for each individual session.

More than that though, I think that Mike could face a distinct felony charge of grand theft for every single pot won where he profited more than $950.

The first grand theft charge he was convicted of could carry up to 3 years in jail. Each additional count could carry an additional 8 months.

That thought is really just an exercise in what-ifs though. He wouldn't ever be charged in that manner, because:

1. Proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he cheated during a session is significantly easier and less time-consuming than proving cheating in individual hands, and

2. At ~60 cheating sessions, that's more than enough potential jail time to throw around at the negotiating table, and easily enough to satisfy any reasonable opinion on what would be a just sentence.

Details that may be somewhat peculiar to California, if anybody cares (this is all assuming Mike doesn't just receive probation. I can't fathom that he would.):

- In this circumstance, sentences on individual counts could be run concurrently, in whole or in part. Going down on 60 counts doesn't automatically equate to a 40+ year sentence.

- Because of prison overcrowding in California, assuming that Mike has no prior serious or violent felony offenses, and isn't a registered sex offender, he'd serve the custody portion of his sentence in jail, not prison.

- Mike would be presumptively elligible for a "split sentence" on his jail time. A portion of his sentence would be served in custody. The remainder would be served on "mandatory supervision." He'd effectively be serving the rest of his sentence on probation, and could return to custody for some or all whatever time remains on his sentence if he violated.

- Assuming Mike didn't lose good time or work time credits for disciplinary reasons in jail, he'd only actually serve half of the custody time imposed. It's also possible that he could serve a portion of the custody time at home in an ankle monitor.





Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
Thanks for this info! Please feel free to chime in at anytime with any relevant info you might have as most of us don't have much legal knowledge.

Do you think that the people that he has taken money from can sue not only for the money directly lost to him, but also their expected ROI on the given session, kind of like the casinos tried to do/ did do to Ivy? Do you think they could receive any reparations for any phycological damage done, as well as, reparations on any future losses / downswings incurred in other games that were caused by the phycological damages he caused them?
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:45 PM   #3415
Manner Please
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Every James Bond theory, whether it be 1337 hackers cracking wifi access points with default passwords, bracelets with cameras, secret RFID readers reading the whole deck, all these theories fail to account for several points of bizarre behavior that suggests JFK was covering up Postle's cheating. And yet people keep posting them without explaining any of JFK's behavior, like going into the chat during the graphics change to re-assert that Postle had the nuts, his awful investigations and dismissive behavior, Postle losing superuser powers when JFK was away, etc.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:46 PM   #3416
momentaryblip
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Manner Please View Post
It's a dumb theory because JFK doesn't need to hack into the wifi, he already has the password.
I think the idea is it’s a way that JFK (or an inside man) doesn’t have to necessarily be involved. I don’t actually think this is likely though. Much more likely one or two inside men, with the 89s hand lending a ton of credence to that.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:48 PM   #3417
pghduilaw
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankoblanco View Post
What's interesting to think about is that DNA evidence is often used for pretty automatic convictions in court. The statistics behind Postle's hands are literally more compelling than DNA evidence. Statistically speaking it is more likely to get a false positive from a DNA test than for Postle to have done this legitimately. Yet no court will understand poker or statistics well enough to grasp this, so it all comes down to if people rat him out.
DNA evidence is accepted now but when I started prosecuting homicides and sex assault cases in the 90's it was not accepted or understood by the general public. These days DNA evidence will give probabilities of a match in the billions, back then it was often in the millions. Juries had a very hard time understanding this - they expected dna testing to show that the match to a certain person was certain. We had to find ways to explain the probabilities to them that they could grasp. I remember a case where the dna result that stated there was 1 in 2.5 million that the dna sample wasn't from the defendant. I asked the jury to close their eyes and imagine a swimming pool filled with 2.5 million red gum balls, then I pulled a blue gumball out of my pocket and said now throw this blue gumball into that swimming pool. That is the chance of this defendant not being the perpetrator of this crime and (holding up the blue gumball while pointing at the defendant) said and the defendant is that blue gumball. I got a conviction in that case but my point is that convincing a jury of lay people to convict based upon statistical evidence is difficult.

Quote:
At the end of the day a long shot is a long shot: most people will understand that. DNA is different in that average everyday people accept DNA findings as bullet proof, DNA is perceived by the general population a certain way. I don't know what the average everyday person "thinks" about poker winrates, etc.
This is also a good point. This type of evidence is different from dna evidence because of the way poker is perceived by the general public. Many people think that poker is just luck. Thus, they might easily be convinced that even if MP wasn't that good he just got lucky for a period of time.

I am not stating that a criminal prosecution is impossible or even that it couldn't result in a conviction. However, having done 100's of jury trials both as a prosecutor and as a criminal defense attorney, I can attest that the average juror is easily confused by statistical evidence and this tends to favor the defense.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:50 PM   #3418
fozzy71
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I have not watched this yet but pretty poetic considering the drama around him 'not being invited' to the first vloggers game that he ends up on the last game (and the titling of his vlog LOL) they streamed:




https://youtu.be/Bv58ycuTV-o












Last edited by fozzy71; 10-04-2019 at 08:59 PM. Reason: this is the stream b4 the last one, when troop was in the commentary booth
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:50 PM   #3419
AceHighIsGood
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1 View Post
Justin's defense of Mike is that he is employing the unbeatable "Martingale" strategy? Is this some sort of joke? No one is that stupid right?
So many people are that stupid...
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:51 PM   #3420
Key Guy
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think this deserves a little more love, the poker god reacting before the cards even hit the felt:

https://youtu.be/Jh1UjP-UpX8?t=652
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:51 PM   #3421
Admo
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

These guys needs to become very famous. Anyone taking point on website?

I'm down to help aggregate, distill, explain, and google-shame. Hit me up if somebody's already on the caper.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:52 PM   #3422
golfbum983
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

What about if mike put some virus in Justin’s computer, and that why he needs him there?

I remember others doing this too ppl in the past to see oppents hole cards
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:52 PM   #3423
zica
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
At the end of the day a long shot is a long shot: most people will understand that. DNA is different in that average everyday people accept DNA findings as bullet proof, DNA is perceived by the general population a certain way. I don't know what the average everyday person "thinks" about poker winrates, etc.
Is it within reason meaning, not beyond a reasonable doubt, that he is 50 times better than Phil Ivey? I think to convince a jury you would not focus on probs and stats but show 30 hours of Phil Ivey's play compared to 30 hours of Mike Postle's play, after explaining that Phil Ivy is regarded as one the best players in the world.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:59 PM   #3424
PeteBlow
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Joey,

Just re-watching #4 investigation stream

Watch from 2.21.00 when Mike loses flush over flush.
The commentators say that 'Mike came to watch that hand'. Which is something that must've happened during the 30 minute delay.
2,23.30 and the commentators try to roll that back and say that 'That is of course right. They players don't go back into the producers. That was stupid of us!'

What does that mean?
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:59 PM   #3425
Key Guy
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by golfbum983 View Post
What about if mike put some virus in Justin’s computer, and that why he needs him there?

I remember others doing this too ppl in the past to see oppents hole cards
I believe this was discussed earlier in the thread, Mike assisted when the stream was first set up.
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