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Old 10-04-2019, 04:00 PM   #3176
Neverlucky16
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
They aren't some of the stupidest people on the planet. Why does this narrative keep creeping into this thread? This is greed, not stupidity.
Did you read the quote?
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:02 PM   #3177
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Deeperthoughts View Post
So in the middle of cheating allegations being aired internally about a guy who never loses, Justin just so happened to publicly blast out a video showing his guy in a losing spot. I have a hard time believing this wasn't an attempt to provide cover.
Every f* time he had the opportunity to cover up for Postle he did it.

That's a friend i'd love to have. So loyal...

At this point i'm like 99% sure he was in it.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:03 PM   #3178
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Re: Mike postle cheating allegations

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Originally Posted by MrFabulous View Post
Says Moneymaker who himself is just a way below average player and just holds on because of his name...
Nothing wrong with that. He never claimed to be a crusher either.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:04 PM   #3179
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Thanks, had missed this was coming out. Will watch out for it, be very interested to see their take on it.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:04 PM   #3180
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Deeperthoughts View Post
So in the middle of cheating allegations being aired internally about a guy who never loses, Justin just so happened to publicly blast out a video showing his guy in a losing spot. I have a hard time believing this wasn't an attempt to provide cover.
Yep, Postle and JFK were probably thinking, "ok we made a big punt on the river, this will be a good coverup hand." But actually Postle's play totally aligns with superuser mode because nobody would expect his opponent to make that insane hero call.

All Postle and JFK need is one big river bluff into a STRONG hand, but surprise surprise, Postle just always makes big raises into weakness. To the extent that people started expecting it and started hero calling him.

I also like how when locals criticized Postle they are "local 1/2 losers" and when pros do they are "so-called pros who think GTO wins". JFK was taking heat from all sorts and downplaying it left and right.

It requires serious mental gymnastics to defend JFK at this point.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #3181
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Re: Mike postle cheating allegations

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Originally Posted by MrFabulous View Post
Says Moneymaker who himself is just a way below average player and just holds on because of his name...
The poster insinuated that Moneymaker was one of the most feared players at Tunica. I suppose he can just speak out of both sides of his mouth and say Moneymaker was feared when it suits his argument and then say Moneymaker is a below average player when that suits his argument.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #3182
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It was greed + stupidity. Any non-stupid person could use their opponent's hole cards and cheat in such a way that you couldn't conclusively prove it just with hand histories and winrates.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #3183
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by a dewd View Post
Would there be any chance of a Larceny charge due to the amount of money? California jail is so packed you'd be out in 3 or 4 months. Almost worth stealing 250K at that point.
CA Gaming laws (I posted this earlier but the thread is huge) say that cheating at gambling has the same penalty as larceny for the same amount of money, except that the fine is capped at $5k for the first offense, $10k for the 2nd. Jail time is uncapped though (thus, the same penalty as larceny)

So the law is in place to handle it. Whether the DA bothers to do their job is another story, but the media coverage around it should help.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:08 PM   #3184
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
They aren't some of the stupidest people on the planet. Why does this narrative keep creeping into this thread? This is greed, not stupidity.
pretty sure you can be both smart, dumb and greedy at the same time. like that accountant who got sentenced to life for embezzling 20 mill and punted it into online, live and tournament poker a couple months back. Made a few appearances on LATB and won a million dollar tournament in between his gambling addiction and money laundering spree.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:08 PM   #3185
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
They aren't some of the stupidest people on the planet. Why does this narrative keep creeping into this thread? This is greed, not stupidity.
They aren't just greed, they are plain stupid.

The way they conducted things was really messy.

If they were smart they wouldn't be so obvious in every way possible.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:09 PM   #3186
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by redirkulous View Post
I mentioned them because those people all have posted about knowing Mike, and are all BIG NAME PROS.
Jennifear was a sng beast/coach from NY who I've not heard of in a while maybe shortly after bf. She was top top level sng player and used to get like $150/hr for coaching, highly respected in the community, and very very skilled. She was a very math based player before it was really a thing that non top level players even knew about. She also wrote some articles for the other forum that may still be around in the archives there, I think she may have been a mod for a while.

PokerHO is Mark Kroon.

edit - just adding my 2c and answering a question somebody asked itt about who players were that appeared to have known Mike, not in any way condoning Postle, just sharing background on a player who he apparently knew long ago. Jennifear was such a nice person that it's also entirely possible she was just being supportive in general as she was to the community as a whole and didn't even know him personally.

Last edited by Floki.onGP; 10-04-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:09 PM   #3187
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Neverlucky16 View Post
It was greed + stupidity. Any non-stupid person could use their opponent's hole cards and cheat in such a way that you couldn't conclusively prove it just with hand histories and winrates.
And they would win way less money. That doesn't sound all that greedy to me.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:10 PM   #3188
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by zizek View Post
More than just a "little" bit. It's actually very irresponsible that the mods are letting some of these other accusations go haywire.
I'll reply to this post and expand on a few things thread-related.

This is a fast-moving thread and will likely be one of the biggest and most important NVG threads in years. Accordingly, rest assured that several NVG mods are reading/monitoring the thread (I think everybody knows who the NVG mods are).

The huge thread naturally has seen innumerable posts that in retrospect, and perhaps even at the time they were posted, seem outrageous and undoubtedly wrong. Some contained "accusations" of various folks at the Stones Casino many of them involved on the technical side of the live streams.

Of course, some/many of the accusations may prove unfounded. That does not mean that they should not have been made in the first place. Mods will rightly remove any baseless accusations of anyone or anything but generally speaking this is a free-flowing thread and new information comes to light at a ridiculously fast pace.

Also that is the nature of a scandal (alleged, potential scandal). I don't want to single anyone out for fear of overlooking somebody, but it is clear that 2+2'ers have done a great job here uncovering/investigating/communicating findings of suspicious behavior (originally suspected by Veronica and others).

Finally, NVG mods will be clamping down on calls for mod actions in this and any other NVG threads. Posts like "Please ban this idiot" or "Make this idiot stop posting" are often counter-productive in that they can slow down/derail the thread. Anybody posting things like that will likely receive a temp-ban.

Please report any posts you feel are inappropriate by clicking on the red triangle thingy to the left of the post. Post reports are automatically and immediately sent to all NVG mods. You can also make a post in the stickied NVG moderation thread at the top of the NVG front page. Or feel free to PM any NVG mod.

Sorry for the long-winded diatribe.

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Old 10-04-2019, 04:12 PM   #3189
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

At the end of the day , what has he got to worry about, l mean, is he going to suffer more than Chris Ferguson or Howard Lederer? Will he suffer like everybody did on Black Friday?
@DNegs was ****ing.playing with Ferguson during this Summer vlog FFS... final table as l recall..
@ChicagoJoey @DougPolk
Love the investigation, but they will still play, and what do you gain....
What is the worst that is going to happen...
Why is Ferguson, Howard and the Full Tilt Scandal just forgotten about..
Will he be banned? No
The law judged Ivey wrong on both sides of the Atlantic, but, where is that farce going, (we wont even go there)
Truth be told, this smacks of hypocrisy and flag waving in the light if all that ACR, Full Tilt,and all the other shady sites have been party to.
So you break one guy and a back room guy,
Will Stones.suffer?
No
Did Stones know?
Allegedly yes!
Will Stones.suffer?
No,
Because.they will find 2 people in collusion outside of their knowledge, AND BE EXONERATED

NOBODY IS GOING TO JAIL FOR THIS,JUST LIKE NOBODY WENT TO JAIL FOR BLACK FRIDAY AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
But we are all going to be proud of ourselves catching a small fish in a big sea


Sleep well people





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Old 10-04-2019, 04:12 PM   #3190
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by a dewd View Post
Not only that, he claims to read people so well yet rarely appears to try to engage them while in a hand. He typically is not even following the table until it's his turn to act.

Must be great to be able to read people and hands without really paying attention.
I agree, Postle in an interview said he is successful because he is great at talking to people and getting information from them about their hand.

I found that explanation is a damned lie, as he is too busy looking down at his crotch to pay attention to the people he is playing against! And he doesn't talk much to them when making his mind up on his moves, as obviously he doesn't need to seek information when he has already been told what they have.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:13 PM   #3191
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

After 40 pages of this thread I believe that he is a GOD.
I don't believe that I will be able to finish this thread in the next year though. You guys are posting too much
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:14 PM   #3192
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Re: Mike postle cheating allegations

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Not sure what your basis for saying this is but regardless mentioning a few big name pros that played a bit in Tunica doesn't refute his statement whatsoever especially when one of the "pros" you mentioned (Moneymaker) said this about Postle: “He’s a really good f*****g player.”
Unless you knew the guy was superusing, you might think so, too, based on his winrate.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:15 PM   #3193
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by n00ki5 View Post
They aren't just greed, they are plain stupid.

The way they conducted things was really messy.

If they were smart they wouldn't be so obvious in every way possible.
They are so stupid that they were able to get away with blatant cheating for over a year and now that we've recognized it and have been analyzing data for several days we still don't know who all was actually involved, nor can we come to a consensus as to what methods of cheating were used even though people have combed through hours and hours of footage.

BTW, it might not even be a "they" at all. It's still possible that Postle pulled this all off by himself.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:16 PM   #3194
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Re: Mike postle cheating allegations

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Originally Posted by namisgr11 View Post
Unless you knew the guy was superusing, you might think so, too, based on his winrate.
Moneymaker said that based on playing Postle heads up in cash games back in Tunica circa 2003+
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:16 PM   #3195
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Primedirective@ View Post
JUST LIKE NOBODY WENT TO JAIL FOR BLACK FRIDAY
Actually they did.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:16 PM   #3196
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Utopia View Post
I've compiled data for all Mike sessions since 2018. Just missing rebuy data. Does anyone have that?

Anyone is free to add data or improve it. I have a backup if it somehow gets messed up.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
I am moderately confident that August 22nd, 2018 was his first session where he was cheating.

I'm only moderately confident because I made a decent bit into the session before I was ready to mark it down as a non-cheating session. His body language changed a few sessions before and he looked like he would look later when he was cheating, but I saw him lose in a lot of spots he doesn't lose later. In the 22nd video, he was very subtle and was picking and choosing his spots as opposed to what he eventually became when he was cheating. He was definitely very conservative with it, so he may have been doing it earlier and I missed it since I was expecting him to go from not cheating to full on YOLO.

Also, and I'm sure this is just coincidence, but August 22nd, his brother showed up in the stream chat trying to make side bets on who would win the most. He may have done that before and I hadn't noticed. That probably means absolutely nothing but I did notice that and the cheating for the first time there.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:16 PM   #3197
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
And they would win way less money. That doesn't sound all that greedy to me.
When the robber walks into the store he can swiftly take a couple things and conceal them or he could loudly grab everything and stuff it in his jacket so it's bulging out. You call the 2nd one greed but it's obviously greed and stupidity.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:19 PM   #3198
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Naismith View Post
I am moderately confident that August 22nd, 2018 was his first session where he was cheating.

I'm only moderately confident because I made a decent bit into the session before I was ready to mark it down as a non-cheating session. His body language changed a few sessions before and he looked like he would look later when he was cheating, but I saw him lose in a lot of spots he doesn't lose later. In the 22nd video, he was very subtle and was picking and choosing his spots as opposed to what he eventually became when he was cheating. He was definitely very conservative with it, so he may have been doing it earlier and I missed it since I was expecting him to go from not cheating to full on YOLO.

Also, and I'm sure this is just coincidence, but August 22nd, his brother showed up in the stream chat trying to make side bets on who would win the most. He may have done that before and I hadn't noticed. That probably means absolutely nothing but I did notice that and the cheating for the first time there.
Yep, I came to the same conclusion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by momentaryblip View Post
OK first time chiming in here.

I've gone thru 2018 in chronological order in the Stones YT page. Appears to me from skimming every episode he appeared on in 2018, that he first starts super using on the August 22nd 2018 ($5/$5 No Limit Hold'em with Brent and Scott) episode.

All of the previous 12 episodes (appears his first 2018 appearance is Feb 21) that he is in before the Aug 22 2018 episode, I didn't see any super-using evidence, the phone (and keys) are often out on full display during hands/action, hands seem played reasonably, he's actually decent. Does run well often, but nothing overtly suspicious.

Then on the August 22nd 2018 episode, I see definite weirdness, a very weird play where he goes nuts with T2s, very obviously looks down in his lap before making a questionable/suspicious play, phone is nowhere to be seen, etc.

Here are the twelve links to the 12 appearance in 2018 that looked fine to me, then the link to where I think is the first stream that he super uses (August 22nd 2018 ($5/$5 No Limit Hold'em with Brent and Scott):

================================================== =====
** 12 appearances in 2018 that seem fine / normal / non-superusing (TBF I skimmed thru hands pretty quickly looking for absence of phone on table, obvious crotch glances, or suspicious hand situations/plays, so it's possible I missed something before August 22nd episode)**

Feb 21, 2018 Veronica & Friends! $1/$3 NLHE with Special Guest Jonathan Little: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBdP260MCuQ
Apr 19, 2018 $5/$5 No Limit Holdem with Special Guest Andrew Neeme and Brent Harrington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7HTpCRJplE
May 23, 2018 $5/$5 No Limit Holdem with Justin Kelly and Chris Glasgow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVv8BATZmqI
Jun 22, 2018 $5/$5/$10 No Limit Hold'ed with Special Guest Chris Moneymaker, Hosted by Kasey and Justin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RTNjRxcvIc
Jul 18, 2018 Veronica & Friends! $1/$3 No Limit Hold'em with Justin Kelly and Kasey Mills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAw9HiSpG9w
Jul 27, 2018 Veronica & Friends Replay w/ Live commentary, with Tom and Scott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvE09nhHLJk
Jul 30, 2018 $1 on the Button / $2 / $3 No Limit Hold'em with Scott and Kasey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWPHGvuqDg
Aug 1, 2018 $5/$5 No Limit Hold'em with Brent and Scott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eYbMfvswe4
Aug 3, 2018 $5/$5/$10 No Limit Hold'em with Train and Kasey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu4n0Sis8Fg
Aug 6, 2018 $1/$3 No Limit Hold'em with Train and Brent: https://youtu.be/ZKa83uP7m_Q?t=2352 (actually gets pwned pretty hard by Joel in this one)
Aug 10, 2018 Harlan and Victims - $5/$5/$10 No Limit Hod'em with JFK and the Mountain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vlmz8T86DQ
Aug 15, 2018 Veronica & Friends - $1/$3 No Limit Hold’em: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4KS_TixXx0
================================================== =====

and..... here's the Aug 22 2018 episode where things start to get weird, phone out of sight etc, and first time I see the quick crotch-gazes disguised as looking at cards, immediately preceding a pretty suicidal (cold 3-bet jam on flop) play with bottom pair against two opponents that you can only make if you are certain they both have broadway hands that whiffed on the 8 high flop..., especially considering the 2-bettor was fairly committed with the 2 bet sizing and his fairly shallow stack depth (meaning you can only jam on him if you are certain it's a bluff/opponent has nothing, but it's still crazy because of the stack to pot ratio, and the fact that Mike has yet to commit any post-flop bets before his suicide play). Anyway so here you go:

Aug 22, 2018 $5/$5 No Limit Hold'em with Brent and Scott: https://youtu.be/oOxc4qbQiLo?t=2287
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:20 PM   #3199
Primedirective@
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SootedPowa View Post
Actually they did.
I meant the ones who should.. and , please if you are going to quote me, quote my whole text, unlike Fox news..
Appreciate it

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Old 10-04-2019, 04:21 PM   #3200
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://twitter.com/themouthmatusow/...15566482624512
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