Technology killed live poker before it killed online poker. The sophistication of the device demonstrated at Defcon shows that there is a large, recurrent market for cheating compared to relatively few incidents that fully come to light.

+1 to this. Really unfortunate situation all around.

I'm starting to think how streamed games can move forward from here, regardless of any guilt attributed or admitted by Mike.

They will need to be treated the same as regular tourney tables, with no phones if you have cards in front of you (ideally as soon as first card has been dealt).

I'm not saying that any phones should be banned, but they should be on the rail, in a bag/jacket or on a side-table. Hands should *generally* (i.e. within reason) be above the rail at all times, especially when a hand is in play.

I can actually see a situation now where RFID data will just go via wire to a hard drive under the table, then be retrieved later, i.e. we go from a 30 min delay to a day delay, with no wi-fi transmission, & no third party tech input to the graphics involved until the game is finished for that day.

The end of poker streaming as we know it. Thanks Mike!

This is beyond epic.

There are a WHOLE LOTTA people involved in this (I think)...

You mean this one??

not to mention automatic shufflers. The new ones tell you which card is missing if there are <52 cards. Meaning it reads the cards. The way they work is an RNG determines the order of cards, it doesn't actually "shuffle". Also very disturbing.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348363451?t=04h09m15s

Where do you feel comfortable playing after all the AI, bots on online sites, this situation...

Small buyin live tournaments that are never streamed?

All I really want to try going forward. Last wind outta my sails personally.

Just wanted to throw out the outside chance of a "lone wolf" theory. I don't think this is the most likely theory, but its worth considering the idea. The theory would be that he intercepts the rfid reader (wired) with some physical device, and has the outputs sent to his phone. If he is involved in production maybe at some point he had some time with the table setup.

is this a joke? this is absurd, he's worse than someone at 2nl on stars

One analysis that could be used as evidence is his VPIP when anyone at the table has JJ or better. If it's extraordinarily low compared to his VPIP when that isn't the case, that strongly implies he knows the other peoples cards at the table.

With his opponent sitting right next to him it's possible to get some sick live reads to play the hand as he did (of course with perfect information he would have checked turn). However, being on the phone is super suspicious. Are great players really playing on their phones during the middle of a big hand? If that's a trend throughout his other hands then that's super suspicious because one needs to focus on the game and the other players in order to gather all the information necessary to make optimal reads.


He has fanboys? Either way, seems like a pretty easy fold against Jaman in that spot.


Depends on the exact method of cheating. The lawyer that was cheating in Austin a few years ago would have known that he was going to win the hand before the cards were even dealt.

If only we could get Charlie Carrel in here to vindicate Mike on the obvious livereads his opponents have. He doesn’t have explain to us the tells, but they’re there.

Does the dealer not cut the cards right when it comes out of the machine? I don't think this thread needs to delve into crazy conspiracy theories about the shuffle machines.

For this particular cheating accusation, all that would be needed is a person related to the production just texting the player information, who is staring at his phone every hand. It seems based on the information presented in this thread of those things seem plausible. A rigged shuffle machine does not seem plausible to me.

Donk on donk violence has variance.

The moment the shill realizes that the gig is up?

So ridiculous

I'm not sure if this would be a good analysis, in single raised pots or playing deep even with 96o he likely could still call if he knows v's hand. Easy to bluff them off bad runouts/you know you can stack them when you hit your two pairs+, especially with his maniac image.

This is extremely unlikely to be the same circumstance. The RFID cards can't reliably be read on top of each other, whereas the infrared marked decks you're referencing had indications on the edges. Assuming Mike is cheating, it's most likely he only knows player holdings, and not what the flop/turn/river will be. That's also consistent with the 54o vs AK vs AK hand where he actually lost the first board run out - I doubt even the infrared reader could reliably identify that he would win on the second board.

That's what I was thinking when Mike was in the booth with JFK. He'd give an explanation that didn't make sense then just start laughing, like he did everytime he'd put someone allin knowing they couldn't call.

Even the commentators know. “A-Q won’t win, my money’s on the 9-5!”

It was a comment on the advancement of technology and how dangerous it is for poker. Yes, a bit of a derail.

A rigged machine is perfectly plausible, it's literally a computer controlled machine with 52 slots that can read cards and place them in any order. I agree it has nothing to do with this incident directly. I agree that the fact that the cards are cut would likely require a rigged machine scam to involve a crooked dealer with card cutting skills.

Why is everyone talking RFID devices and whatnot? Wouldn’t the more likely method be that someone with access to the hole cards is just texting the villains’ cards to him and that’s why he’s constantly looking at his phone?

That's the thing, Mike clearly isn't that good at poker. His live reads and tells explanation would be somewhat believable if he didn't spend so much time staring at his crotch.

This guy isn't just running like a god. I've seen players hit the deck hard and run $600 into $25k within 5 hours at 10/20. Their particular playing style perfectly matched the cards being dealt and they could not make a wrong move. Another example, Jamie Gold winning the 2012 WSOP. At best, they run good a couple times a month and run like gods a couple times a year. They don't consistently run like that for long periods. No one expects them of cheating, and cheating allegations aren't taken lightly in the poker community.

It goes without saying, to call someone a cheat, you need serious proof. If multiple people are coming forward calling someone a cheat, isn't that enough reason to begin investigating? Do we need undeniable evidence to accuse someone of cheating? Absolutely not. Multiple allegations are more than enough. If we are wrong, then yes, there will be damage to his credibility etc. But what if he is cheating and we do nothing? What of the tens of thousands of dollars he is robbing from other players? What about the physiological damage he is doing to them and their game? He could end good player's careers like this. If he gets away with it, other players will also find a way to do what he's doing and our systems wont improve. Whether you like it or not, he is now in the court of public opinion, and we are doing the best we can with the evidence at our disposal to investigate the situation.

IMO, he is cheating. Consistently looking at his crotch before and during every hand. Making hero folds with TPTK for small money and always being right, making hero calls and insane bluffs with bottom pair when the opponent is weak, his dumb smirk whenever he's "bluffing" with the best hand knowing the opponent can't call. I could go on and on but I'm sure others, Joe Ingram/Doug Polk, will do a much better job in analyzing his play. Its funny, that he is so bad at poker that he makes it obvious he is cheating. Give this tech to any avg reg and he would never get caught.

Just listen to Postle talk about hands in an interview with the commentator. He sounds like he just started playing yesterday. Matt Berkey makes crazy moves that many poker players don't understand, but listen to him explain the hand and he sounds like a genius. Postle's like, "well I had a feeling, and I drank some wine, and yeah I had a feeling..." There is just no way with his level of thinking, his tendencies, that he is a consistent winner in the game, not just a consistent winner, but NEVER making mistakes, which is ironically, his biggest mistake and will inevitably be his undoing. The stats are something like winning 24/24 sessions, and he's winning HUGE each session at a 5/5 game, 16k+ or that ballpark.

And you being a "network security engineer" and saying something is impossible to hack just sounds wrong to me, I'm sure you've heard of social hacking. There doesn't have to be some huge conspiracy with multiple people at Stone in on it. I understand where you are coming from, but also consider that if there are this many people accusing him of cheating, it is worth an investigation. I mean, people cheat at chess for crying out loud.

for a recreational player, playing against an AI or against a good reg is probably going to net him the same losses, playing against someone who sees your cards though lol, you are rekt

its disgusting honestly, just sad to watch what he did to these people.