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Old 07-21-2008, 05:50 PM   #176
StraddleBet
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by MakoMako View Post
There seems to be a lot of anger and hate at 2+2. The attacks and amount of overly negitive statements can only happen in two places;
1. A mob.
2. The internet.

When I see David Singer at tournaments and in casinos many people approach him and ask for his autograph, a picture, or just want to ask him a question. The popularity of poker plays in public has always surprised me, and when I see Singer he seems very popular.

I play in many WPT and WSOP tournaments. I have played with David Singer often. He is one of the most professional people at the table. He is respectful of others and treats people well. He once correct a dealer at his expense. I am not friends with him, but I suspect most of you don't know him.
I don't doubt he's a swell guy. We're questioning his poker etiquette with regards to H.O.R.S.E., not whether or not he's a swell guy. He could be the nicest guy in the world, but to claim he's not playing an angle when there's mounds of evidence to the contrary makes him more than a little shady. Compounded with his history of calling people out for improper etiquette, he's made himself a target.

Nobody here made this stuff up, it's all out there for the world to see. He's a lawyer, he should understand the "mounting evidence" concept.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:50 PM   #177
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

It's not about anger or hate, it's about maintaining the spirit of the game and respecting your fellow players.

As far as I'm aware DS has a pretty decent reputation, however he is clearly in the minority on this and should take note of what people are saying. I'm presuming he was in the camp that thinks it isn't a big deal but now other players are telling him it's a problem, he should come round to their point of view and just get on with the game...no worries assuming he is a decent guy as he seems to be.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:48 PM   #178
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

chufty seems like real ahole, he is doing this even more than singer:

Dealer: The game is now $2,000/$4,000 Limit Hold'em
Dealer: Hand #7319669969
Dealer: SteveSung posts the small blind of $1,000
Dealer: CHUFTY has 5 seconds left to act
Dealer: CHUFTY is sitting out
Dealer: CHUFTY has timed out
Dealer: Hand #7319669969 has been canceled
Dealer: Uncalled bet of $1,000 returned to SteveSung
CHUFTY: skip holdem?
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:36 PM   #179
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

Probably this pros don't want to play so many variants or don't like horse but there is no action on highstakes in limit holdem, razz, stud high, stud hi/lo or omaha hi/lo, and because of that they play where the action is in highstakes horse choosing to play the games they want/like.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:26 PM   #180
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Probably this pros don't want to play so many variants or don't like horse but there is no action on highstakes in limit holdem, razz, stud high, stud hi/lo or omaha hi/lo, and because of that they play where the action is in highstakes horse choosing to play the games they want/like.
maybe instead of screwing up H.O.R.S.E. games they should try lowering their stakes and they'd get action instead of sitting in their ivory towers like someone owes them action because they've got money. if they're only trying to improve their bankrolls and not their game, they should have to do like everyone else -- play the games they can get action in. that doesn't mean screw up the purpose of H.O.R.S.E. for their own ends.

there's no shame in going down in stakes. it doesn't make you busto.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:53 PM   #181
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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I think it should be mentioned that Chau Giang plays HS H.O.R.S.E. and takes breaks all the time -- but the players know he's taking smoke breaks and have even said as much. This is an example of legitimately sitting out during hands (from what other players have said). There is a regular rotation of players at the HS games and they rarely sit out. So, it's pretty obvious when someone folds the 10th hand of one game and doesn't return until the 1st hand of the next game that they're engaging in unfair practice.
I understand what you are saying, and I mostly agree, but if I wait until my worst game in the rotation to take my smoke break, instead of just going when the urge strikes me, am I doing something unethical? Even if I only do it once, I presume it's still wrong to wait.
What if I wait to take a smoke until the end of my opponent's worst games? Is this unfair?
In the end, who really knows the motivation of someone taking a break? There should be some blanket rule online that you can't ever sit out an entire game for any reason, and then there would be no arguing about the motives of a player like Singer.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:19 PM   #182
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

Purposely and consistently sitting out your worse game(s) is well within the rules of online HORSE. But that doesn't mean it's bad poker etiquette and shows the person has low class. And as far as I'm concerned the part about Singer saying Mike's on drugs is just out of line and a low blow.

And in chat "no it all" said his intials were "AF". So it's atleast Amnon's account, but it's probably a shared account.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:41 PM   #183
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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I am sorry, but actually you are the one who does not understand.

For quite a while there was no strict rule about offside in soccer. There simply was no need. Then soccer got very popular, and people realized that much of the game's appeal was lost because of the "kick throughs", so they invented the offside rule. Still no need for it in a game among friends.

The same is true here. As long as H.O.R.S.E cash is played live, there were so few playing it that hardly anyone dared to exploit the game. After all, exploiting a game in a casino is dangerous; look what happened to the MIT team.

But now H.O.R.S.E cash is played online; the number of players must have increased 100fold. Now there is a need for a rule that prevents exploitation.

But until then - money up for grabs. End of.
I have only read up to this point in the thread, but I felt the need to stop and say:

Dear god you are ******ed
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:54 PM   #184
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

And at this level of play, most the players that are playing know each other and have played over a considerable amount of time and aren't hit and runners. So after awhile, you pull crap like this, you are going to get noticed. And if you are so good at stud david, post the blinds and antes in all games and you should be good enough to win them and a lot more back during that game.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:07 AM   #185
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

There are a bunch of pretty smart people here, can't we come up with a decent solution? How about if you miss your blinds in a flop game you have to wait for that game to come back up again, or post a dead big blind in the next round to get back in? Or a similar penalty in stud would be maybe posting half an ante for each hand you miss? In the 1k-2k game that would be a 1k post for missing an entire round of whatever game. Maybe even half that, like a dead small blind and a quarter ante per stud hand? Half a small bet is probably enough of a disincentive to skip those games, I'd guess.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:01 AM   #186
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

This is all kind of ironic since in the 'Players Most Abusive To Dealers' thread it was mentioned that Singer was on someone's list for being such a rule nit and here he is getting accused of angling a game.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:55 AM   #187
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by pete fabrizio View Post
There are a bunch of pretty smart people here, can't we come up with a decent solution? How about if you miss your blinds in a flop game you have to wait for that game to come back up again, or post a dead big blind in the next round to get back in? Or a similar penalty in stud would be maybe posting half an ante for each hand you miss? In the 1k-2k game that would be a 1k post for missing an entire round of whatever game. Maybe even half that, like a dead small blind and a quarter ante per stud hand? Half a small bet is probably enough of a disincentive to skip those games, I'd guess.
The problem with your first suggestion is that it punishes people that have a true reason to sit out far too hard. I'm more likely to just leave the table altogether rather than sit and wait for the previous game to come back up.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:18 AM   #188
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by pete fabrizio View Post
There are a bunch of pretty smart people here, can't we come up with a decent solution? How about if you miss your blinds in a flop game you have to wait for that game to come back up again, or post a dead big blind in the next round to get back in? Or a similar penalty in stud would be maybe posting half an ante for each hand you miss? In the 1k-2k game that would be a 1k post for missing an entire round of whatever game. Maybe even half that, like a dead small blind and a quarter ante per stud hand? Half a small bet is probably enough of a disincentive to skip those games, I'd guess.
start counters for all the games at the beginning of a session. if #(hands played in current game) - #(hands played in game you've played least) > 15, you can't play. this means, for example, that you can start on your best game and leave after it's done, but if you skip a round you'll be forced to sit out your best games in the next round. there probably should be some adjustments to the counter if you've been at the tables longer than 2 hours, but i think this is actually an instant solution.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:22 AM   #189
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by JediMyndTrik View Post
The problem with your first suggestion is that it punishes people that have a true reason to sit out far too hard. I'm more likely to just leave the table altogether rather than sit and wait for the previous game to come back up.
Idunno, I agree maybe a big blind is too extreme so maybe a small blind or it's equivalent would be better. And maybe there's a better solution, but some kind of reasonably-sized posting requirement seems like the most logical and simple to me so far.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:23 AM   #190
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by blah_blah View Post
start counters for all the games at the beginning of a session. if #(hands played in current game) - #(hands played in game you've played least) > 15, you can't play. this means, for example, that you can start on your best game and leave after it's done, but if you skip a round you'll be forced to sit out your best games in the next round. there probably should be some adjustments to the counter if you've been at the tables longer than 2 hours, but i think this is actually an instant solution.
This is way too complicated.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:38 AM   #191
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

3 options as I see it:
-Create a mixed game without Hold'em and enforce the current rules banning anglers from mixed games.
-Create a counter in the software that keeps track of how often you *skip* games and after a certain point have the software disallow you forum sitting in during your favorite games forcing you to wait for Hold'em to start forcing players to play a full orbit of games if they often skip
-Give temp bans to anyone who skips because clearly they arent going to perm ban Red Pros from games
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:39 AM   #192
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

what's complicated about it? if you never sit out a round, there's no way to ever play more than 10 more hands of one game than another. once you've played more than 15 hands more of one game than another (which can only happen if you're sitting out rounds), you can't play that game anymore. it's really simple when you think about it, and you could only institute this policy for players who have received complaints. the sites can use the number of hands they've played of each game to see if complaints have merit.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:49 AM   #193
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Originally Posted by blah_blah View Post
what's complicated about it? if you never sit out a round, there's no way to ever play more than 10 more hands of one game than another. once you've played more than 15 hands more of one game than another (which can only happen if you're sitting out rounds), you can't play that game anymore. it's really simple when you think about it, and you could only institute this policy for players who have received complaints. the sites can use the number of hands they've played of each game to see if complaints have merit.
If you implemented it just for players that have complaints, I guess this could work. But it's still way too complicated for people just sitting down to play, at least relative to a simple "Post or wait?" dialogue box.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:51 AM   #194
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

This is so f'ing ridiculous if David is guilty. Anyone who has ever played with him knows he is the biggest rules nit and ******* when it comes to enforcing the rules. Then he goes and pulls this ****.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:59 AM   #195
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

Why do you need something complicated? What's wrong with issuing warnings to players whose behavior leads to complaints then, after a certain threshold of warnings, giving temporary bans of increasing lengths from the mixed games?
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:52 AM   #196
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

Bart is one of the dumbest poasters in NVG
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:33 AM   #197
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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Bart is the dumbest poster in the history of NVG
FYP
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:38 AM   #198
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

singer sitting out LHE 2/4 horse rit now
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:10 PM   #199
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

he was on the wait list for awhile...i was away from my pc and then he was gone so i dont know what happened ...i look back at the hand history and he played 5 hands of stud then got up and now hes sitting again when the game started on O H/L and he did play when he was the bb


P.S. who is chufty he is killing this game right now
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:51 PM   #200
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

lol david singer
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