I did not know these tickets expire.

If they indeed expire, that clearly adds merit to the suit.

I didn't know that the machines paid out cash coins pre lockdowns, so that is a fair point.

However, a further argument then for the defence, as I would see it, is that their change in policy is a completely justifiable business decision.

They suffered big losses (or at the very least a big drop in profits and shareholders' dividends during the lockdowns) and since re-opening, coins are more scarce, so they have replaced them with the ticket system for the cents part of the payout.

The above IMO *weakens* the prosecution case, not strengthens it, as it shows that the casino made the change in method for purely practical reasons.

Also, if the machines previously paid coins, then the total amount "scammed" must be relatively small, if it's accurate that this new system has only been in place post lockdowns.

The justification for not including the cent amount on the whole dollars amount ticket would be that it will add labour costs for the casino if the cashiers now have to pay cents on so many more tickets than they had previously. So by implication, they are asking/ecouraging customers to cash in the cent only tickets a few at a time, so that the cashier pays out for example $2.96 once, not 8 individual payouts averaging 37c each.

The coin shortage is very relevant because you only need one coin float per cashier using the new system, whereas before, every slot machine would need its own coin float.

The bottom line here IMO is that player rewards/loyalty points/comps and other added free promos far outweigh the few cents here and there that many players will be losing because they don't want to queue for the cents part of the payout, and if they want to queue they can.

This reads like you don't understand how slot payouts work as you don't get paid out at the slots. You put cash into a slot. When you're done, it prints out a paper ticket. You can then take this ticket to another slot machine to keep playing, an automatic ticket redemption station, or a cashier. There is 1 automatic ticket redemption station per few hundred slot machines. The automatic ticket redemption stations don't dispense coins. So to cash out, you go to the automatic redemption station, get your cash, and it dispenses bills plus another ticket for your coins which you can then discard or take to the cashier. So in theory, it shouldn't really save hardly any coins if everyone actually cashed in their tickets. It only should save coins for people that actually save their coin vouchers over multiple days (before the 30 day expiration hits). Of course it saves a lot of coins due to hassle of redemption. For reference, the cashier's line is usually about a 5 minute wait plus a decent walk, and the automated machines have no wait and are much closer to the slots.

When people gamble, they usually only turn it into money when they're done with slots for the day, as if you're not done, you'd just keep the paper slip to put in the next machine.

Again, this method likely increases labor costs. Now like 10% of transactions for customers that actually want change are now handled by staff instead of machine. But the 90% of discarded change more than pays for the increased labor costs.

Of course it evolves around people not cashing their change. Same way the gym business model only works because most people don’t actually go there. That doesn’t make it a scam though because it’s perfectly legal. That’s why the lawsuit isn’t about the practice itself.

What the casinos do is obviously not customer friendly but that’s a totally different thing.

Here is a link from the LV Review Journal. apparently $22 million of ticket vouchers were not cashed in the last fiscal year. The state receives 75% of this amount and the casinos keep the other 25%. Not sure if the fact that the state has a process for what happens to the money and is in fact the largest beneficiary weakens the plaintiff's case but I would assume so.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...ey-go-2627329/

Legal things can be scams, obviously.

Don't remember getting vouchers for change at caesars.

Always root for the little guy.

I can only speak for The Borgata, MGM property in NJ. Before the coin shortage all machines paid out change. During coin shortage Borgata first did the change voucher valid for 12 months. The machine also gave you the option of not collecting change, instead donate to charity, I forgot the name. Then the voucher system was halted, and machines rounded up tickets to nearest dollar. E.G $ 345.11 voucher was paid out as $346 cash. That lasted about 2 weeks bc every degenerate and slot hustler inserted $5 bills in slot machines, took 1 pull for .75 cashed out for $4.25 then redeemed at cash out machines for their original $5. Now some machines will dispense change and others tix.

As far as the lawsuit goes....SMH. MGM should pull all cash out machines make these whinny bitches wait in long lines. IMO. I have no love for casinos, but this lawsuit is a stretch. They gave a voucher, not their fault you're too lazy to cash it out.

MGM is the greediest/shady gambling company out there. It is the one sportsbook that would not give me a cash out of $1,500 cause of some ridiculous reason of my email not matching my paypal.. I agreed to cash out a different way, they kept telling me my account was looking suspicious I submitted everything they asked for and they still would not let me cash out and were not responding to me. I contacted the Illinois Gaming Commision, they made a call to MGM, and MGM sent me my money immediately.

The coin shortage is a total bullshit excuse. if their intention is to pay out the money what's the difference if the coins are in a machine or at the cage.

It's not about being "too lazy". It's about time wasted to collect a small amount of change. It's the beauty of the scam and why they do it. MGM has machines to save themselves money on cashier's-it's a happy byproduct that it's more convenient for customers. If they get rid of the machines as you suggest then they have to spend more on cashiers and everyone cashes out the full amount so that's not gonna happen.

MGM already doesn't have enough cashier's. At 3 am on a saturday night Borgata might have 2 cashiers, 0 in the poker room with 50 people on line. Naturally one line is people doing cash advances and other stupid **** that takes 5 minutes to complete and the other is chips/tickets only.

**** MGM.

Do I actually care about the 30 cents or whatever for myself? No. But it's not some mom and pop shop that legit doesn't have the change, isn't scamming and it's going to work both ways and balance out anyway. It's a complete dirtbag company that does have the change and is scamming millions of dollars a year.

Wow, I am amazed that they even tried that system for two weeks. Totally predictable that hustles like that would happen.

To those claiming these machines sprung up during pandemic coin shortage…sorry no. Maybe became more prevalent then some places. They were common along the gulf coast before then. Look at the qualification date in this suit, 2012iirc. Well before pandemic or the subsequent coin shortage.

Also for all tickets, there almost MUST be an expiration date. Otherwise millions of dollars of lost tickets would build up on the liability side of the without a mechanism for casino to clear the liability.

No one is forcing you to gamble there. Go somewhere else if you don't want to wait in line. I myself save the change vouchers until they add up to a few bucks then redeem at cage next cash out. Pretty simple.

Of course, after the change shortage MGM realized this voucher approach is more advantageous for them. They know ppl will throw away or forget the change and the change adds up. Just go to the window or take your business elsewhere. But stop whining.

I've been to Borgata 3 or 4 times since it reopened after the lockdown. I used to play 800-1000 hours a year of poker there and **** around in the pit sometimes.

**** mgm.

Borgata called....They asked since you hate them so much to change name.

Th gym example is not valid because they are not altering people's behavior, whereas MGM is, i.e. they are forcing people into a value proposition "do I wait 15 minutes in line to cash $0.50, or do I leave and feel ripped off?".

If the gym proceeded to take out x machines because of reasons, then would not the members have a reason for a claim? It's not an exact parallel to MGM, but the bargain offered by the casino is the patron is entitled to winnings produced by the slot machine, and should not be forced to jump thru hoops to claim it.

This happens in every casino all over the world. Better off taking the ticket to the cashier than using one of those machines. I was recently in Spain and next to the ticket machine, there is a transparent bin to slip the unwanted tickets into, i.e the ones with 0.xx in change, it's filled to the brim of all sorts of small denomination change tickets. It's a racket/scam, but based on the laziness and stupidity of the punters, slot machine punters aren't known to be the most astute or +ev gamblers are they to begin with.

If they offer you a chance to cash out these tickets at the cage how on earth can this be a legal argument that they are not paying change. Just because you want the easier option to cash out at a machine doesn't negate the fact you have the option to cash out at the cage.

Absolutely ridiculous case that should be thrown out as soon as its possible to do so/

I agree.

This appears to be vexatious case/claim designed to force an out of court settlement.

Chillrob,

That hustle that you said was totally predictable is exactly what the Casinos are doing, just in reverse, and, as you say, totally predictable from them.
Racetrack

But what happens to the tickets put into that bin? Here in the states when I have seen this there is a designated charity that gets those funds.

Hilarious saltiness ITT.

Here is my unsolicited idea, free of charge or your money back. In one simple sentence:
Points for discussion:

• What if I want my $0.03 ticket?

• Total per kiosk or aggregate?

• Randomize the round up and how?

• What do we do with the bins for unclaimed tickets?

• ???

• Profit?

Why not just program either the slot or the cashout machine to let you gamble to convert your change into a dollar?

I.e. if you have 25c change on your ticket, you can press a button that will give you $1 25% of the time, and zero 75% of the time.

Or just round to nearest dollar whether up or down. In the long run it would break even for both I’d think.

That would easily be gamed. Cash in your tickets if the change is over 50 cents, hold onto them to use again later if the change is lower than 50 cents.

There are actually a few slots similar to this. If you get down to less than a min bet size, it offers you this choice or you can cash out for a ticket with the change.