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Maurice Hawkins Told "Shut Up, N***er" At WSOP Event? Maurice Hawkins Told "Shut Up, N***er" At WSOP Event?

07-07-2018 , 07:08 PM
He wasn't being racist guys, and even if he was, that damn THUG had it coming by being all THUGGY.
07-07-2018 , 07:11 PM
This is the WORLD Series of Poker. If you claim to organize the most prominent series of the whole world you shouldn't apply your US-specific sensitivities to foreigners. If you watch MTV in Europe when young it makes you seem like it's a completely acceptable word. The concept that some people can use certain words while others can't is a US phenomenon and unknown to many Europeans.

Also the words ****** has similar sounding variants in other European languages (Italian: negro) that are still completely acceptable to use. For some that might make it seem like an innocent translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0RUS
Lol all of you guys are racist sympathizers. How can you guys even remotely assume that the n word somehow has different meanings in other countries? It doesnt matter what country you are in, if you learn the word then you know what it means. Theres no middle ground. Its a derogatory term used by non black people to degrade black people POINT BLANK.

Lmfao i cant believe you guys are trying to rationalize this racist's behavior. "He's European so he didnt know the severity of the word" Are you serious??? LOL. He reserved that word for maurice, he knew exactly what he was doing.
You might think the world revolves around the US, it's sensitivities and the English language but it does not. Unless most Americans Europeans often speak several languages and it's impossible to grasp all nuances, especially when to original meaning of a word is completely harmless, stemming from the Portugese word negro which just means 'black'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio
mecantplay, are you really this stupid? Like you don't understand why it's different for black people to reclaim and use a word that is a defining symbol of the oppression of and violence against black people by white slave owners, and continues to represent the most vile forms of racism to this day, then it is for white people to use this word?
Why is the whole world supposed to know and be aware of US history? Are you that aware of the history of all other countries or just being an ignorant self-centered American?

Last edited by Michael Buble; 07-07-2018 at 07:16 PM.
07-07-2018 , 07:17 PM
I got a question for all the people who think the DQ was called for and saying the N word s this big bad horrible thing.

MY question to you is"If a blackperson calls a white person a cracker/marshmellow/salteen" or anything like that out of anger should they be subject to getting a DQ?

Another question- If a black calls another black the N word is it ok? If so explain your reasoning
07-07-2018 , 07:23 PM
over-the-ear headphones an absolute must
07-07-2018 , 07:42 PM
Ugh, no matter how annoying somebody is you just can't go there. The English language, deep with slang as it is, has plenty of appropriate words to call this Maurice fellow without using such terminology. No reason to bring race into it, the guy let his emotions control him and made a mistake.
07-07-2018 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)
Maurice is one of a significant handful of pros/regulars who have learned how to irritate and berate other players, but do so in a way that does not quite cross the line into a rules violation. But their intent, IMO, is to anger the other player enough that they say something that is technically over the line, and then try to get that player penalized. They think they're clever and smart and using the rules to their advantage. But, they're just natural born ass holes who have found an excuse/rationale for their behavior.

The problem is, if they don't ever actually cross the line, how can or should a TD handle the situation? The TD is in an almost impossible spot, which is why generally nothing gets done. If anybody has a really good idea how to deal with this stuff, I'd love to hear more. People like this are very bad for the game, as they chase away the fun players. If I was the owner of a poker room, I'd make it a habit to permanently ban all such players. Probably give them a warning, and a temp-ban first, but if they don't change, perma-ban. Even if they don't ever actually break a rule, they're bad for my business, and my customers and my business are better off without them.

Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
The TD's don't live in a bubble. They hear and probably have an ear to the ground and know which players are always causing trouble or having issues. Maurice is a known ******* and angleshooter and instigator and **** talker seemingly everywhere he plays. If I remember reading correctly he has been banned from some of his local casinos down in Fiorida. Not sure if it is permanent or not but he has been banned. So for somebody like him, who seemingly singlehandedly takes the good out of poker and causes so many problems at his tables, the TD's should be pulling him aside before the event starts and giving him 1 warning. If there are any behavior issues with him brought to the TD's attention through multiple players or dealers or if he witnesses it, then Hawkins will be immediately disqualified and barred from future tournaments at said location.

With somebody like Maurice Hawkins that's what needs to be done. And when he starts his crap and gets his first DQ and ban, he can yell to the cows come home and complain all he wants. But nothing changes and then, only then will he tone it down and stop with the bullcrap. Just my opinion.
07-07-2018 , 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC
Ugh, no matter how annoying somebody is you just can't go there. The English language, deep with slang as it is, has plenty of appropriate words to call this Maurice fellow without using such terminology. No reason to bring race into it, the guy let his emotions control him and made a mistake.
Yep. The long post above yours defending a European's usage of the word through etymology is way off base because it doesn't matter if a European is aware of how strong the word is in America, they know it's a racial specific term. And they chose to go with taking the race angle rather than simply calling him an a-hole, mfer or whatever.
07-07-2018 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)

The problem is, if they don't ever actually cross the line, how can or should a TD handle the situation?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan)

If I was the TD of a poker room, I'd make it a habit to permanently ban all such players. Probably give them a warning, and a temp-ban first, but if they don't change, perma-ban. Even if they don't ever actually break a rule, they're bad for my business, and my customers and my business are better off without them.

Greg, I think you answered your own question and I agree.

Further, there seems to be a bunch of misguided rationale and weak excuses in this thread that seem to make allowance for the use of the N word.
Face it, in today's USA you say that word in any public venue and you're done. It's not going to change. Deal with it. I think Jack made a great decision.

I also think Jack should follow Greg's suggestion and put Maurice on notice that his excessive trolling behaviour will no longer be tolerated. Now during the Series would be a good time to set a precedent and either penalize or toss Maurice if his unwanted behaviour continues. It's time to curb his kind of behaviour and Jack now has the perfect opportunity at the highest level to do so thus sending an example for other TDs to follow.
07-07-2018 , 07:57 PM
many people ITT need to check their privilege.
07-07-2018 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_CUtiger
Yep. The long post above yours defending a European's usage of the word through etymology is way off base because it doesn't matter if a European is aware of how strong the word is in America, they know it's a racial specific term. And they chose to go with taking the race angle rather than simply calling him an a-hole, mfer or whatever.
We don't even know if he was trying to insult Maurice, many people report him saying 'what's up n*gger' instead of 'shut up n*gger'. Maybe the Italian guy just wanted to be cool and spoke to Maurice in the way they do in rap videos. Maurice has got the same style as those 'rappers', with a baseball cap, earring, necklace and sunglasses so that doesn't seem far-fetched at all.
07-07-2018 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_CUtiger
And they chose to go with taking the race angle rather than simply calling him an a-hole, mfer or whatever.
Making lgbt jokes would also cross a line. They should come out with a list of words that can get you disqualified. I also know some people who get VERY offended by the word ******, maybe on the list too.
07-07-2018 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Buble
We don't even know if he was trying to insult Maurice, many people report him saying 'what's up n*gger' instead of 'shut up n*gger'. Maybe the Italian guy just wanted to be cool and spoke to Maurice in the way they do in rap videos. Maurice has got the same style as those 'rappers', with a baseball cap, earring, necklace and sunglasses so that doesn't seem far-fetched at all.
But that conflicts with reports that he told Hawkins to shut up 20 times before that. It must have been said with some anger behind it in an argumentative state to illicit that type of reaction from Hawkins.
07-07-2018 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_CUtiger
Yep. The long post above yours defending a European's usage of the word through etymology is way off base because it doesn't matter if a European is aware of how strong the word is in America, they know it's a racial specific term. And they chose to go with taking the race angle rather than simply calling him an a-hole, mfer or whatever.
Because that whole race thing is US specific, that’s the whole point. In Europe you can’t randomly shoot people, in the US you can’t use racial slurs. Very different cultures. But something you have to be aware of as a tourist.
07-07-2018 , 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_CUtiger
But that conflicts with reports that he told Hawkins to shut up 20 times before that. It must have been said with some anger behind it in an argumentative state to illicit that type of reaction from Hawkins.
If those reports are true you are right, but often those third hand reports aren't, see the conflicting statements about what was actually said. I'm not an American so I might be wrong, but my understanding is that someone being called a N by a white person is likely to be offended regardless of the way it was said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
Because that whole race thing is US specific, that’s the whole point. In Europe you can’t randomly shoot people, in the US you can’t use racial slurs. Very different cultures. But something you have to be aware of as a tourist.
Ideally, yes. But that doesn't mean you can't be more forgiving to someone who doesn't understand the full meaning of 1 single word because he comes from somewhere else. I don't mind some action being taken against him, but the way some posters ITT expect all foreigners to be fully aware of issues and meanings that are very specific to the US is ridiculous imo.

Last edited by R*R; 07-07-2018 at 08:26 PM.
07-07-2018 , 09:05 PM
what the **** are people on, Hawkins is an angle shooter but n****r is still a racial slur in other parts of the world. Are you telling me all the xenophobic euros who use sand-n****r to describe refugees from Syria/Yemen/etc don't think it's a slur either? I hope nobody is buying this ****
07-07-2018 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycorrhizae
wn****r is still a racial slur in other parts of the world. Are you telling me all the xenophobic euros who use sand-n****r to describe refugees from Syria/Yemen/etc don't think it's a slur either? I hope nobody is buying this ****
How did you make that up, have you lived in every European country? I lived in 3 European countries and in those that word wasn't used at all. There are derogatory words for a black person, but that wasn't it. This is actually the first time I see someone use the word sand-n****r. Words that sound similar like negro and negru just means a black person without a negative connotation.
07-07-2018 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Buble
How did you make that up, have you lived in every European country? I lived in 3 European countries and in those that word wasn't used at all. There are derogatory words for a black person, but that wasn't it. This is actually the first time I see someone use the word sand-n****r. Words that sound similar like negro and negru just means a black person without a negative connotation.
Many European countries the word is Negro or Negru for black, you are correct. Adds another twist if the Italian dude simply meant to say "What's up Negru", which maybe even isn't considered a slur in his home country.

I could see Hawkins seizing on the opportunity and completely blowing it out of proportion and feeling personally fulfilled to have DQ'd someone, seems to be his M.O.....
07-07-2018 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Buble
How did you make that up, have you lived in every European country? I lived in 3 European countries and in those that word wasn't used at all. There are derogatory words for a black person, but that wasn't it. This is actually the first time I see someone use the word sand-n****r. Words that sound similar like negro and negru just means a black person without a negative connotation.
if you're using it, you're accountable for your actions. spanish and italian and other romance languages have a word for the color black that has a similar root, but they're not the same word. Making any comments relating to someone's skin color are dubious at the table honestly. You don't say it by accident. Zero tolerance in my eyes.
07-07-2018 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycorrhizae
if you're using it, you're accountable for your actions. spanish and italian and other romance languages have a word for the color black that has a similar root, but they're not the same word. Making any comments relating to someone's skin color are dubious at the table honestly. You don't say it by accident. Zero tolerance in my eyes.
You are accountable for you own actions indeed, though I think intentions do matter. When speaking another language it's easy to make the mistake that an existing word that sounds similar has a similar meaning.

I was reacting to the fact that you automatically assume he knew the meaning and implications of what he said, and supported that with a false statement.
07-07-2018 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Buble
You are accountable for you own actions indeed, though I think intentions do matter. When speaking another language it's easy to make the mistake that an existing word that sounds similar has a similar meaning.

I was reacting to the fact that you automatically assume he knew the meaning and implications of what he said, and supported that with a false statement.
I'd say you are well in the minority to not know, and even if you are ignorant, if you're having an argument w/ a black man, whether you use "Negre" (straight up a slur), "N****r" (also a slur), Negro (still offensive), or Negru (still offensive), it's not ok. Doesn't matter if you're Chinese, Italian, South African, Brazilian, if you're heated and start talking abt someone's skin color there's no mistaking intent.
07-07-2018 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycorrhizae
I'd say you are well in the minority to not know, and even if you are ignorant, if you're having an argument w/ a black man, whether you use "Negre" (straight up a slur), "N****r" (also a slur), Negro (still offensive), or Negru (still offensive), it's not ok. Doesn't matter if you're Chinese, Italian, South African, Brazilian, if you're heated and start talking abt someone's skin color there's no mistaking intent.
I knew and have been in the US a couple of times. But I can understand someone from Europe who doesn't know.

We weren't there, you don't know how it was used. If it was derogatory you are right that he shouldn't have used it anyway. But if it wasn't because of the implications of that specific word he wouldn't have been banned, because if all words describing someone's ethnicity were dealt with that way it'd be a daily occurrence.
07-07-2018 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Buble
I knew and have been in the US a couple of times. But I can understand someone from Europe who doesn't know.

We weren't there, you don't know how it was used. If it was derogatory you are right that he shouldn't have used it anyway. But if it wasn't because of the implications of that specific word he wouldn't have been banned, because if all words describing someone's ethnicity were dealt with that way it'd be a daily occurrence.
They were arguing. It's clear they were arguing prior to the incident. If you mention ethnicity in an already heated argument, there is no context where it is anything but derogatory, or at the very least grossly instigatory. There should be 0 doubt in anyone's mind given the context that the player who said the comment was in the wrong, regardless of the particulars. I find it highly doubtful that he didn't know or wasn't intenting to use a slur, but it is without doubt that he was talking about Hawkins' skin color. Which is a bright red flag in any emotionally charged table talk.
07-07-2018 , 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycorrhizae
They were arguing. It's clear they were arguing prior to the incident.
How is that clear? I haven't seen any people who were there confirm this. Three reputable people who were actually there (Dutch Boyd, Matt Glantz and Ryan Feldman) heard 'What's up ******'. I don't see that phrase being part of a heated argument.

Last edited by Michael Buble; 07-07-2018 at 10:23 PM.
07-07-2018 , 10:18 PM
The 1-day temp-ban train has left the station.
07-07-2018 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext
The 1-day temp-ban train has left the station.
Can you please define what will get a temp-ban as it relates to this specific particular thread?

      
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