Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-04-2020, 05:18 PM   #76
legionrainfall
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 557
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Every hobby is filled with old bitter jealous haters who piss on anyone new.
legionrainfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 06:43 PM   #77
fishfood69er
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Risking my ruin
Posts: 1,600
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall View Post
I guarantee you that she's not pretending to be a world class player. Only dunning Kruger fools would think that. Smart people know better than that. She's not lying. She won a real tournament. No more no less.

legit lol'd when i read this , then realized you were serious.
fishfood69er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 10:58 AM   #78
KatanaSoul
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 272
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall View Post
People obsessed with a niche hobby are always the first bitter attackers when mainstream media takes an interest in their stupid little hobby.
I am sure everyone trashed Molly's Game. If Rounders came out today, every poker nerd would trash it. People are idiots, is the bottom line.
I agree that that type of reaction is indeed a thing that normally happens (not just with poker, but with any niche hobby or thing that a relatively small proportion of the overall population has extremely in-depth, long-term knowledge and passion about).

But, I'm not so sure I agree with the conclusion - that this phenomenon is evidence that these people are "idiots", that is.

I think this phenomenon has to do with the fact that the people who have been into whatever the niche is, for a long time, with a lot of in-depth knowledge, passion, expertise, etc, are able to easily and instantly spot tons of errors or misconceptions or mischaracterizations of the hobby at hand, whereas the broader audience who isn't as in-the-know don't spot those things.

Thus, the in-the-know people who are really into whatever that hobby or occupation or thing is, end up having a laundry list of (often genuine, and valid) disagreements with the book or article or movie that misrepresented or had lots of inaccuracies about the subject at hand.

To an outsider, it would just look like a bunch of randomly pissed off people who are just being automatically angry about anything being released about their subject at hand, for no reason. But, to an extremely knowledgeable insider, their disagreements might all be pretty accurate and valid.

So, I'm not so sure this effect means they are "idiots". It makes sense that this would be the reaction from the in-group if their stuff gets portrayed very inaccurately and it's something they care and know a lot about and have built their whole lives around.
KatanaSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 11:34 AM   #79
Chawee2000
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 33
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

+1
Chawee2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 02:30 PM   #80
Mother Mucker
old hand
 
Mother Mucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,432
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

She was interviewed on the Freakonomics podcast too. I think it came out a couple weeks ago. Good listen.
Mother Mucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 11:25 PM   #81
legionrainfall
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 557
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaSoul View Post
lot of in-depth knowledge, passion, expertise, etc, are able to easily and instantly spot tons of errors or misconceptions or mischaracterizations

laundry list of (often genuine, and valid) disagreements with the book or article or movie that misrepresented or had lots of inaccuracies about the subject at hand.

.
Valid? Errors? Sorry, but not one thing about the game of poker has been misrepresented in the article or book. Not one thing. It's gonzo journalism at its finest. The haters are seething bitter nobodies who are jealous no matter what was written. Idiots to the core.
legionrainfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 12:26 AM   #82
KatanaSoul
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 272
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

I wasn't addressing this article. I have no idea if it was accurate or had errors or not. I was addressing your more general, sweeping comment of:

"People obsessed with a niche hobby are always the first bitter attackers when mainstream media takes an interest in their stupid little hobby.
I am sure everyone trashed Molly's Game. If Rounders came out today, every poker nerd would trash it. People are idiots, is the bottom line."

Which is why I quoted that when I replied.
KatanaSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 12:40 AM   #83
KatanaSoul
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 272
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Also, on a side note, I can't help but notice that you seem like quite a "bitter" person, and kind of a "hater", yourself.

Check out the way you are describing hobbyists, and their "stupid little hobbies" and calling them all haters and "seething bitter nobodies" and so on.

Seems like the glass house stone throwing thing might be applicable here. You don't exactly come across like a bundle of joy, yourself.

I agree that there are some people who overreact negatively to almost anything that comes out about their hobby, or anything/anyone new that comes in, and so on.

But, you seem to be overreacting just as hard in the reverse direction, and are coming off pretty mean-spirited.
KatanaSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 01:05 AM   #84
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 4,799
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Mucker View Post
She was interviewed on the Freakonomics podcast too. I think it came out a couple weeks ago. Good listen.
Either I missed this episode, or I'm just that far behind on my subs (both are quite possible). Thanks for the heads-up.

Also, just started the book. I've found I don't have the patience to read almost anything these days, but I'm still enjoying it.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 03:10 AM   #85
NoControl
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 213
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post

whether she was actually profitable and/or whether eric got a BJ out of it? tbd
Jesus Christ, what if her kids/parents/colleagues are reading this thread?

Is it ok if we speculate whether you'd take it up the ass for some poker lessons? What if we threw in a sweet staking deal as well? Does a 50/50 split guarantee us some half and half? TBD
NoControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 11:25 AM   #86
The Bukafax
veteran
 
The Bukafax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,359
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Reading the article...

I gave a hearty chuckle at Seidel telling her the $140 dallies at Aria are too tough lmfao
The Bukafax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 09:42 PM   #87
legionrainfall
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 557
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bukafax View Post
Reading the article...

I gave a hearty chuckle at Seidel telling her the $140 dallies at Aria are too tough lmfao
well not everyone has squandered a decade of their life on a pointless gambling game. lmfao
legionrainfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 11:29 PM   #88
The Bukafax
veteran
 
The Bukafax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,359
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall View Post
well not everyone has squandered a decade of their life on a pointless gambling game. lmfao
wat? The $140s at aria arent too tough is what Im saying.
The Bukafax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:36 AM   #89
LifeRebooted
grinder
 
LifeRebooted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 484
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Abbadabba -- You say you are just criticizing the article and the idea that the author is being venerated as a poker champion, and that it has nothing to do with the author being a woman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
i'm not at all angry about her success and would be interested to read about her experiences. i just think it's ridiculous to venerate her as a poker champion and that the people who're rushing to deflect any criticism of the article are pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
Yea, people said the same thing when i ragged on outlets celebrating dan blizerian as being a self made poker prodigy. am i hater for taking a few minutes to point out the obvious? i guess so. i'm just a hater who can't help but hate. now bring on the hater-haters so they can hate on me for hating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
if people want to feel smug about defending her honor that's lovely, but most of what i see isn't a criticism of her as much as it is the article and it wouldn't be any different if it was about a guy.
But your lead criticism/commentary is that Konnikova's success was likely purchased in exchange for a blowjob, given to someone who could only be interested in working with her because she is a woman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
cliffs: middle aged guy who has spent an entire life mastering poker offers free coaching to attractive woman. . . . whether she was actually profitable and/or whether eric got a BJ out of it? tbd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
maybe she was a family friend or there was some other reason, but obvious reason is obvious.
Maybe in your heart of hearts you don't think you're being sexist, but I really encourage you to give some thought as to why you even think, much less openly suggest on a public message board, that the Seidel would only be interested in working with Konnikova because she is an attractive woman who may have offered him sexual favors. I also encourage you to give some serious thought to why you think that is at all a relevant criticism of Konnikova's writing.

If I am being charitable, I think the argument you are trying to make is that Konnikova takes too much credit for her success, where most likely her success is mostly attributable to some combination of obtaining coaching from a highly successful player and variance. Do you see how I just made your argument without putting Konnikova's sex/gender at issue? I encourage you to think about why felt compelled to frame your argument your way.

(By the way, from what I have read, Konnikova makes it very clear that much if not most of her success is owed to her access to Seidel and Phil Galfond, and to luck.)
LifeRebooted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM   #90
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 11,333
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Hi Everyone:

I'm reading Maria's book and are about 25 percent through it. My initial reaction is that it's an enjoyable read which many people would also enjoy. Of course, I know quite well some of the people she talks about, and this includes Erik Seidel and Dan Harrington. So, this is an aspect that I may find a little more interesting than others. But based on what I have read so far, I definitely would recommend her book.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM   #91
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,754
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bukafax View Post
wat? The $140s at aria arent too tough is what Im saying.
not too tough.

Also Aria runs a great promo from time to time where they give a free $25,000 high roller ticket to randomly selected person that enters a $140.
PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM   #92
hERESY
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,811
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

anyone actually read the book? good?
hERESY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:08 PM   #93
The Bukafax
veteran
 
The Bukafax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,359
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by hERESY View Post
anyone actually read the book? good?
I just went and picked it up today. I really enjoyed her book Mastermind, so I knew I would probably enjoy this.

I am about 60 pages in atm and its is pretty good so far.
The Bukafax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM   #94
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 11,333
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bukafax View Post
I just went and picked it up today. I really enjoyed her book Mastermind, so I knew I would probably enjoy this.

I am about 60 pages in atm and its is pretty good so far.
Hi Bukafax:

I currently have you beat and are on page 117. But my opinion is the same as yours.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:46 AM   #95
legionrainfall
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 557
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bukafax View Post
wat? The $140s at aria arent too tough is what Im saying.
Yea, that's my point. I am sure $140 level is not easy .......for anyone who hasn't flushed a decade of their life studying this game. So, Eric was probably accurate with that advice.
legionrainfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 09:20 AM   #96
namisgr11
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,033
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by hERESY View Post
anyone actually read the book? good?
Excellent, in my opinion. Her poker journey from complete novice (not knowing hand rankings) to circuit traveler and mtt winning player is well told. But the book is unlike any other poker book I've read in significant ways. First, her training primarily at the hands of Seidel and Galfond with a little Dan Harrington and professional psychologists with expertise in poker tells thrown in is interesting, as she learns both the mathematics and game theory side and the feel side of the game. Second, the way she applies the lessons of variance in poker to aspects of probabilistic thinking and decision-making in everyday life is, for me, unique and insightful. She's humble, funny, and articulate and thoughtful throughout.

If you're looking for another how to poker book, this one isn't it. But it covers interesting and valuable ground that I don't think any other one does.

As for the Aria $140s, the decision on where to start playing live tournament poker in LV was based on her very limited experience with online and even less with live mtts (one charity tournament in New York), coupled with a limited bankroll, and the value of learning from starting out playing the low stakes daily turbos at places like the Nugget.

Last edited by namisgr11; Today at 09:29 AM.
namisgr11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 11:01 AM   #97
The Bukafax
veteran
 
The Bukafax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,359
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by legionrainfall View Post
Yea, that's my point. I am sure $140 level is not easy .......for anyone who hasn't flushed a decade of their life studying this game. So, Eric was probably accurate with that advice.
Ive probably played much more Aria dallies than Seidel has, I would rather recommend those to a beginner versus the jank turbos run in rooms like Ballys or Flamingo. Those are almost like play money with 80 percent of the time being unbelievably shallow.
The Bukafax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:34 PM   #98
whatthejish
Pooh-Bah
 
whatthejish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,049
Re: Maria Konnikova's Atlantic article: How I Became a Poker Champion in One Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bukafax View Post
Ive probably played much more Aria dallies than Seidel has, I would rather recommend those to a beginner versus the jank turbos run in rooms like Ballys or Flamingo. Those are almost like play money with 80 percent of the time being unbelievably shallow.
Okay, but are you as successful as Seidel?

I'm more apt to trust his perspective.
whatthejish is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online