Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action?

08-11-2011 , 05:11 AM
I am starting a new thread for this as the main girah threads are becoming very cumbersome and I thought it would be better to focus on this aspect seperately. Obviously if the mods don't agree or if there is already a seperate thread in another corner of 2+2 they can do what they want with this one.

The angle i want to explore further is Lock's role in the affair. Here is a summary for those who haven't followed this closely:

Lock appointed girah as a sponsored pro following the hype around him on 2+2 (which we now know was primarily generated by girah himself with the support of Haseeb and Jungleman). He immediately set about playing in the Bluff/Lock Poker Challenge which was essentially a contest to see who could make the most profit in a month. girah won the challenge. Shortly afterwards the following was posted on 2+2:

Quote:
Macedo has won the challenge earning over $104k during the month of April. I find this fascinating considering he was having a losing month according (to the article) with 2 days left. He had been largely playing no higher than 1k NL and as low as 400 NL. Then all of a sudden on the final day he goes on to play nosebleed stakes and wins enough money to be in first place.

For those that don’t know nosebleed stakes seldom if ever run on the Merge network. So what a coincidence that he was able to find a game at those stakes, on the final day, and not only win but win enough money to get into the lead.

Furthermore, the person against whom the bulk of the money was won was playing under the alias “SamChauhan”. If that is indeed Sam Chauhan of http://www.changingyou.com/, he is a mindset coach not a poker player. Never before have I heard of him playing online poker. Now he is playing against top opponents at nose bleed levels? What made him choose that particular day to all of a sudden start playing 20kNl? Another coincidence?

I believe Sam is from the US, so how did he manage to get so much money onto Merge in such a short period? A bank wire? After black friday? I had never seen him play there before and have not seen him since.

I happened to watch some of their match and it seemed that sam was playing very erratic and unconventional poker. Now I am not going to claim to even understand the thought process of high stakes players, but to me some of the hands that were played seemed very questionable.

Finally, my last coincidence involves a player named INEVERFOLDI. It is rumored that this player also lost quite a bit of money to Girah. I have never seen this player play heads up high stakes and he also happens to be from Portugal. INEVERFOLDI and Girah are the only two portuguese players I have ever seen play high stakes on Merge. Another coincidence?
For some reason the mods chose to delete the post soon afterwards (a bit of a fail as it was probably one of the most significant and insightful posts ever on the site).

In any case the cat was out of the bag and soon afterwards Lock disqualified girah (its not clear how much of a part the 2+2 post played in this). They made the following statement:

Quote:
Lock is disappointed to announce that their new LockPRO ELITE team member, Jose "Girah" Macedo has been disqualified. Runner up Michael "bigguylegend22" Drummond, who earned over $90,000 in profit during the challenge, will take the prize. In audits of all participants' accounts at the close of the competition, violations of BPC rules as well as the Merge Gaming network rules were discovered. The violations with Girah's account included computers at multiple locations logging in and playing on his account. Lock's philosophy is built on player relationship and trust; any violation of fairness by any player is taken very seriously.

"Jose is young and he has made a big mistake here. We wanted to make sure that regardless of being a LockPRO he won this fair and square. After doing an audit of his account we have found that he broke some rules and that will not be tolerated by Lock," said Jennifer Larson CEO/Owner of Lock Poker. "We pride ourselves in standing for trust, legitimacy and loyalty. The truth is sometimes hard to stand by but it is the only way we can move forward. Although José won enough money from his own IP to have legitimately won the challenge, the unfortunate fact remains that breaking the rules is strictly disallowed. The fact remains Jose is an exceptional player and I firmly believe that mistakes only lead to greatness if learned from."

"I'm deeply sorry for having broken the rules," said José, "but I truly had no intention of circumventing the rules in any way. Though it is no excuse, I want to be fully transparent at this point to let the poker world know what has happened and why. The computer in question was my backer, who logged into my account to check my balance and ended up playing some $25/$50 PLO while I was asleep and lost some money. Though on the merit of my own legitimate play I had enough winnings to win the Bluff Challenge, in light of the way things appear, I fully support and respect Lock's decision to disqualify me and hand over the challenge to the second place winner. Once again, I truly regret that all of this has happened the way it has, and I hope that I can win back the generous support and understanding of the players who have believed in me so far. I will be issuing a more comprehensive explanation of what happened on my blog. Thank you."
It has now become clear that the $100k won from the SamChauhan account was in fact just chipdumping by Haseeb. The win from the INEVERFOLDI account is also suspect. In addition, Haseeb has confirmed that he played on girah's account during the challenge (losing money playing at PLO).

The questions for Lock (which I hope their rep will come in and answer) are:

(1) Were you aware of the 2+2 claims before you DQ'd girah?
(2) Would you have done so were those claims not made/publicised?
(3) When you said in the statement "The violations with Girah's account included computers at multiple locations logging in and playing on his account." You used the word "included" implying that this was just one of several violations. What were the others?
(4) Were you aware of the chipdumping?
(5) If not aware then why not since (a) you had conducted an audit and (b) there were specific allegations about it? Also, when did you become aware since the issue was subsequently raised again on 2+2 (after you DQ'd him)?
(6) If you were aware then why didn't you say so in your statement and why did you say that he had won enough legitimately to win the challenge on his own?
(7) Who did you connect the SamChauhan account to?
(8) Why didn't you suspend or sack girah as a pro when you knew he had cheated?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 05:33 AM
I don't want to criticise mods too much as I think they generally do a great job for no reward, put up with tonnes of crap and manage to maintain surprisingly good standards for an open forum. They need to take great care that people don't just publish malicious unsubstantiated allegations. However, in this case the post seems to be in measured language with a framework of facts supporting what is essentially a question rather than a direct allegation. I would generally see this as a good use for this sort of forum. imo, on this particular occasion the thread should have been allowed a bit more of an airing and only deleted if others rubbished the facts presented.

Last edited by raidalot; 08-11-2011 at 05:39 AM.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 05:38 AM
I wasn't intending this to be a "2+2" has questions to answer thread" but since the point has been raised there are also questions about why the connection between girah's various 2+2 accounts was not identified, especially after some posters raised suspicions. For example Masq posted this just now:

Quote:
You know why 2p2 didn't inform us of the IP addresses being the same on those accounts? Lock Poker was paying to have banner ads on 2p2. If 2p2 blows José's cover, Lock investigate/drop him and would have to pull the ads until everything's resolved.
Perhaps Lock would also comment on this angle?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 05:52 AM
in light of the now-admitted chip dumping, love this quote from Girah:

Quote:
Though on the merit of my own legitimate play I had enough winnings to win the Bluff Challenge, in light of the way things appear, I fully support and respect Lock's decision to disqualify me and hand over the challenge to the second place winner.
sheesh.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 05:59 AM
How was SamChaucan approved (with fake id?) to deposit 100k+ on some Merge skin and play high stakes? Why didnt Merge investigate the play?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 06:01 AM
And why did a mod delete what seems to be a legit post?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 06:52 AM
not only lock poker...some mods have questions to answer as well...
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 07:41 AM
In before interesting thread is locked and buried.

Could use some thread merging atm there are so many threads to follow currently!
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kratos
How was SamChaucan approved (with fake id?) to deposit 100k+ on some Merge skin and play high stakes? Why didnt Merge investigate the play?
Good point.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 09:39 AM
I'm interested to know what happened to the 100k.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kratos
How was SamChaucan approved (with fake id?) to deposit 100k+ on some Merge skin and play high stakes? Why didnt Merge investigate the play?
SamChaucan's location was Portugal while he was playing this heads up session.

Just because the SN was that, does not mean it had to be him IRL.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stake Monster
I'm interested to know what happened to the 100k.
It's being divided up and paid out to the NVGtard investigative services, namely RangeyMcTripleMerge . All who were not fanboys and held ground to ultimately come up with the truth will be rewarded by Lock Poker

Yea right jk ofc, but Rangey deserves bout ~3.50% imo
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-11-2011 , 11:56 PM
What about xposting this in the lock poker forum?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 12:40 AM
Given the amount of evidence and circumstances we now have, only leads us to one of two possible conclusions,

1) Either Lock's security department is ultra-turrible

-or-

2) The chip dumping was covered up.

Either way, it raises concern about the whole Merge network.

As for some possible responses from Lock, it seems that the only two options would be to a) say nothing, or b) Admit that they were suspicious in the manner that Girah won the Bluff Challenge, but they didn't feel that they had enough proof, so they DQ'ed him on the MA'ing, which they could prove.

Of course, they have backed themselves into a corner with option b, because they already released the statement that " Jose had won enough to legitimately win the competition".

Therefore, I believe that Lock will remain silent, and I will always lean towards #2. The cover-up always seems to be worse than the actual crime.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaPill
What about xposting this in the lock poker forum?
How do I do this?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 02:58 AM
Silence so far from Lock. This was girah's initial approach. He tried to ignore the questions from a number of us in the original girah thread but that just left him looking shady and it just made it all look worse when the truth came out.

Statements like this are just meaningless unless you back them up ...

Quote:
Lock's philosophy is built on player relationship and trust

Quote:
We pride ourselves in standing for trust, legitimacy and loyalty.


Quote:
The truth is sometimes hard to stand by but it is the only way we can move forward.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raidalot
How do I do this?
Open a thread in the lock forum, same title + (xpost NVG), link to this thread and repeat the orginal text. Thats the best way to do it. Usually xposting is frowned upon, but nobody from LP did answer so its a possibility to get an answer.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 03:34 AM
While it would be great to see Lock address these issues, I suspect that their lawyers are not going to let them say anything substantial about it in a public forum. Given that they had a contract with Jose and what not they might be restricted in what they can say about a terminated employee.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 03:41 AM
I'm not sure its fair to start calling out INeverFoldI. He was grinding a ton during the challenge at 5/10 and 10/20 HU and 6max so it's not unreasonable to see him at 25/50. I know that I played him on multiple occasions at 10/20 HU.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 04:36 AM
Quote:
Lock is disappointed to announce that their new LockPRO ELITE team member, Jose "Girah" Macedo has been disqualified. Runner up Michael "bigguylegend22" Drummond, who earned over $90,000 in profit during the challenge, will take the prize. In audits of all participants' accounts at the close of the competition, violations of BPC rules as well as the Merge Gaming network rules were discovered. The violations with Girah's account included computers at multiple locations logging in and playing on his account. Lock's philosophy is built on player relationship and trust; any violation of fairness by any player is taken very seriously.

"Jose is young and he has made a big mistake here. We wanted to make sure that regardless of being a LockPRO he won this fair and square. After doing an audit of his account we have found that he broke some rules and that will not be tolerated by Lock," said Jennifer Larson CEO/Owner of Lock Poker. "We pride ourselves in standing for trust, legitimacy and loyalty. The truth is sometimes hard to stand by but it is the only way we can move forward. Although José won enough money from his own IP to have legitimately won the challenge, the unfortunate fact remains that breaking the rules is strictly disallowed. The fact remains Jose is an exceptional player and I firmly believe that mistakes only lead to greatness if learned from."
Impossible that they didn't know, even twice alluding to the fact that there where multiple violations. They could argue that they don't have to disclose all the facts as to why he was DQ'd as long as they DQ him, but it is harder to explain the statement that "Jose won enough money from his own IP to have LEGITIMATELY won the challenge". I can't see any stretch of the imagination where a chip dump could be seen as legitimate (DIH's not included).

The good news for Lock is, if they learn from this mistake, I firmly believe it will lead to greatness.

Last edited by poofinger; 08-12-2011 at 04:37 AM. Reason: nite gents
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 04:57 AM
Why the need to chip dump?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by byronkincaid
Why the need to chip dump?
Allegedly so that he had enough "winnings" to win the challenge (which brought fame and fortune). By chipdumping $100k to girah's account it looked like he had won that money. We now know that he didn't win it legitimately and part of the reason for this thread is to ask Lock to explain why they didn't know that (or knew but glossed over it/lied about it). Especially since they did an audit of his win - presumably a pretty thorough one given the fact that suspicions were raised in public specifically about whether Sam Chauhan had dumped the cash to girah.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 05:37 AM
if this does get locked/deleted or whatever i have saved the entire thread and will make sure it gets published somewhere so it can be linked to eventually. i doubt seriously that 2p2 had a hand in locking previous threads because it seems pretty unusual for anyone here to do it just because lock advertises here (remember UB/AP did before all the **** came out about them), but if so, i have it on my PC and will make sure this topic doesn't die. i'm 100% in combat mode vs scumbag mother****ers like girah and chino and won't stop until they are beaten to a bloody pulp or at least EVERYONE knows they are pieces of dog crap.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 05:57 AM
OP, I sadly don't think they'll be answering anything -- they just don't care and prefer to ignore it than to bring more bad attention to them.
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote
08-12-2011 , 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x Range Merger
OP, I sadly don't think they'll be answering anything -- they just don't care and prefer to ignore it than to bring more bad attention to them.
Well then I think they will lose out. >2,000 views of this thread so it is at least useful that people know there are concerns about the integrity of the site (despite all Lock's flowery language about how important truth, integrity, trust etc is to them). I also think the fact that they don't answer tells a story in itself.

At this stage I am willing to keep an open mind on their actions but the longer they don't respond the more I am suspicious that they have stuff to hide. Personally I wouldn't play on a site that doesn't care enough about it's reputation to deal with legitimate concerns of the player community. Can you imagine Stars, Party Poker etc ignoring stuff like this?
Lock Poker's role in the Girah Scandal/Pursing legal action? Quote

      
m