Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players

08-23-2011 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
If you took the top 50 live pros & played against top 50 online pros for a year, the online players end up broke at the end of the period.
TL;DR.

Implicit assumption: the play is live.

Alternative assumption: the play is online and the live players die screaming.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Mirpuri
Implicit assumption: the play is live.

Alternative assumption: the play is online and the live players die screaming.
Yeah, OP is not entirely clear about that. But anything else than referring to live play would be ridiculous. Relying on sould-reads online seems even more absurd than doing it live.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagug5
I think most people are forgetting the obvious.

Live games are mostly 10 handed and frequently much deeper than online, also they commonly have 5-6+ huge fish in the game that like to limp from EP/overlimp LP/cold call 3 bets/make funky donks/etc.
Due to the sheer number of people that want to see a flop, this basically eliminates the ability to isolate & outplay postflop (what are you gonna do vs. 4 limpers? + 2 blinds)
So the game changes to a more honest nut-peddaling one. There's usually more than 1 sherrif on the table to prevent rampid bluffing.

Conversely, online people can multitable, see 20-30x the number of hands per hour and thus average table VPIP goes WWAAYY down. So, then the game becomes one more involved with attacking blinds, etc.

This is why the old nit at the table can still stack the young-gun who 3 bets him with AKs and cant fold to his 4 bet. Old man always shows up with KK+ and young-gun internet kid cant adjust his stacking off range for a passive table, and probably has never flat called AKs pre in his life.
Pretty much sums up the differences in the games I think. The better player is the one who can adapt to the game that he is in.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |)r. W4ts0n
Yeah, OP is not entirely clear about that. But anything else than referring to live play would be ridiculous. Relying on sould-reads online seems even more absurd than doing it live.
Gabe doesn't clearly define terms, explain anything with the use of reason, or form logically structured arguments. arguing with him about anything is futile.

it sucks though. it was way more hilarious when i thought he was serious about convincing those that disagree with him that he is right. or at least serious about showing some of the merits of his theories using logic or a somewhat reasonable explanation (regardless of how poor the spelling and grammar is) because he clearly believes what he is saying.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
You think that tells don't matter to this man, I can't imagine this play could be made online & be positive EV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Qap3VT_ZY
It likely has WAY more to do with basic logic/poker skills than physical tells

It's pretty easy to do this with Ivey's hand when you eliminate all value hands from Jackson's range. If Ivey has seen this guy slowplay good hands, Ivey has the best hand 99% of the time. 7 never plays this way, draws never make the mini-reraises (shoves for fold equity or just calls given cheap price instead).

It's quite an easy hand to disect.

Do you consider standard poker reads that could be made online to be "live tells" as well?
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagug5
I think most people are forgetting the obvious.

Live games are mostly 10 handed and frequently much deeper than online, also they commonly have 5-6+ huge fish in the game that like to limp from EP/overlimp LP/cold call 3 bets/make funky donks/etc.
Due to the sheer number of people that want to see a flop, this basically eliminates the ability to isolate & outplay postflop (what are you gonna do vs. 4 limpers? + 2 blinds)
So the game changes to a more honest nut-peddaling one. There's usually more than 1 sherrif on the table to prevent rampid bluffing.

Conversely, online people can multitable, see 20-30x the number of hands per hour and thus average table VPIP goes WWAAYY down. So, then the game becomes one more involved with attacking blinds, etc.

This is why the old nit at the table can still stack the young-gun who 3 bets him with AKs and cant fold to his 4 bet. Old man always shows up with KK+ and young-gun internet kid cant adjust his stacking off range for a passive table, and probably has never flat called AKs pre in his life.
Do you REALLLLLLLLLLLY think people don't understand that live poker is 10 handed and often times deep?

I highlighted the relevant parts of your post. I feel like you were here to defend Gabe's view, but then you just completely supported the other side of the argument. Honest nut peddling/eliminates ability to outplay postflop is an argument that overall basic poker skills are less important whereas your specific cards/ability to hit the nuts are much more important. The only part of your post that supports anything that Gabe has said is that the games are deep (which allow for big bluffs in 1v1 turns/rivers). We all are not 12 yrs old. We understand the games can get crazier when deep b/c there is more ammunition in the chamber.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 01:48 PM
I still want to know what a casino gets out of using lasers to cheat in a poker game?
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
I was thinking it got 3 bet, but that's been three years ago so not sure. I knew I wasn't going to be far ahead if you had a random hand but with the dead money in the pot I figured it was worth it if I could get HU 3/2 fav with all the dead equity in the pot. You got unlucky it was me in the hand, I'm probably the only player that would have done that & it was strictly something that I picked up in the hand.

Ya, It's super tough to go through that many players & get a bracelet shot, Last year I got 3rd in the $1000 that had 4400 players, It was a minefield & finally got 3 handed with a 9 million to the other guys 3 mill & 2.8 mill & finished 3rd, sighh

I disagree with the bolded part. He wasn't unlucky it was you in the hand, in fact it was lucky it was you given that he ended up all in with a hand that domiated yours. He was only unlucky that you sucked out on him.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xereles
wow such an awesome play...
wat
???
Dude, 5-bet/fold with garbage is legitimately genius play.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 09:04 PM
Pius must be the greatest player to ever live if he 6bet AI the best female player w a 9 in his hand
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beer
Dude, 5-bet/fold with garbage is legitimately genius play.
As Oscar Levant said "There is a fine line between genius and insanity."

Someone that way too often takes far too aggressive lines with substandard holdings because they always think their opponent is weak is not fearless, genius, or even good at poker for it. They are fairly easy to outply, and they are the one of the best kind of donators; those that think they are incredible players, yet consistently lose. In general, they are also tourney donks, and the poker landscape is littered with them.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 10:02 PM
Makes sense Daliman. I think these over-aggro players live for the moments when they shove 94o over a guy's JJ pre and he folds. The high makes up for all the times they get called by the 'boring ABC' players who are quietly crushing them.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 10:12 PM
tl;dr.

Just wanted to follow up and see if:

1) There has/had been an online player vs. Gabe match set up yet

-or-

2) It has finally been announced this entire thread is a huge level.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daliman
As Oscar Levant said "There is a fine line between genius and insanity."
Can you post a couple more vids of yourself? They, along with quotes such as the one above, go a long way with solidifying your image as a well spoken sophisticated individual
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 10:56 PM
For the low limit player a good income which supplements my pension is much easier to earn online then live.Smaller blinds which gives you more power to see flops plus Rakeback.My Ozi pension is only $450 per week and I earn about $300 per week online.Not huge but $15,000 aweek allows me to go to Vegas each year and play live at the biggest fish casino in the world.The Golden Nugget.Good fortune to the poker world Ozi Ray
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 10:59 PM
$15,000 a year.Not as dumb as I sound.Ozi Ray
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 11:19 PM
Is it just me or has this thread attracted some weird people?
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-23-2011 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apokerplayer
Is it just me or has this thread attracted some weird people?
You're very right, for me ucantcme is the worst by far, lets see who thinks who is the weirdest, Im sure I'll get some votes
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMB
tl;dr.

Just wanted to follow up and see if:

1) There has/had been an online player vs. Gabe match set up yet

-or-

2) It has finally been announced this entire thread is a huge level.

1. samoleus pandered to Gabe's every whim regardless of how unreasonable and Gabe stalled until he finally backed out. He first backed out because he could not find a suitable escrow, but he is refusing him to play because samoleus insulted him. and to him, anyone who would sit across the felt from someone who has insulted them has no integrity.

another pro wanted to play him, but obviously he wanted an escrow if he was going to fly to mississippi. Gabe thought that this was ludicrous and claimed that if anyone wants to play him they need to trust that he will play. He will not use an escrow, even though he has already recommended one earlier in the thread who he said was his friend.

2. Gabe is serious
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ
If you mean the fact that live players are better at reading tells that a pure internet player, probably. If you mean your contention that the best players in the world will always be a live player because of the value of those tells, that is not a fact, that is your opinion. Until there's some way to actually measure and prove it, it will continue to be your opinion rather than a fact, and not one that appears to be shared by many, at least not in this forum.

I did not push the match. I wanted to see the outcome, but otherwise posted very little about the Samo match until the end. And I find your statement that you would never play someone who insulted you to be logically ridiculous, given that you claim to be a poker professional who plays live every day. Professionals shrug off mild slights to take huge +EV spots.

And you still haven't explained your reluctance to use escrow, which AFAIK is the only stumbling block to the second match vs. another player you should have a huge edge against who DIDN'T insult you.

These are merely examples of questions or comments you have refused to answer or comment on, which is why you have garnered the nickname in this thread that you have. A nickname that I personally have not yet used to label you, despite your allegations that I am impartial and unfairly minded against you specifically.
just want to say your posts ITT have been by far the most rational, articulate and thorough
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 03:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartersack
Listen man, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. My post was to simply point out that the games at the Beau play much bigger then most and that winning 5k+ in a 2/5 game is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. Actually, pretty common. From what I heard about the action the 5/10 game was seeing this weekend, winning 25k was certainly possible. Did Gabe win 25k? Did Claudia win 5k? I dont know, nor do I care, but the money was on the table for it to happen.

When answering his question, I was assuming he was use to people sitting in games with 100bb stacks. My post was not meant to suggest there is a proper strategy to play against 30bb opens. Rather, by letting him know the games are usually 500bb+ deep, it makes the situation a little more clear as to whats going on (that is, the game being super deep full of people with complete disregard to money, clueless when it come to fundamentals and overall not giving a damn). I guess I shouldve explained myself a little better but I thought my answer to his question was pretty clear. So I ask you, what are you going to do when you have an idiot at the table making 30bb opens? You gonna get up and move games? Or you gonna put as much money on the table as you can? Obv I was referring to the later.

And yes, go sit with 100bb in a 1/2 or 2/5 game and you will feel out of place. Assuming no straddle, the standard opens are 7-10bb. The one hand comment was a slight exaggeration but Im pretty sure you, along with everyone else, can smell what I'm stepping in.

I'm not here to defend Gabe (I dont even know him personally) or to verify his claims. All I did was come here to shed some light on the games at the Beau. Which I did. And anyone thats spent time in the room will back up my statements, regardless of what you saw this summer at the Rio during wsop.
Yeah bro, I bet winning 5k in a 2/5 session is common. Must be pretty nice to make 7 figures playing live 2/5 games huh? Man, I can only imagine how awesome that must be, mad props.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 08-24-2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Stop insulting each other
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polov
Can you post a couple more vids of yourself? They, along with quotes such as the one above, go a long way with solidifying your image as a well spoken sophisticated individual
wait a sec. While the Mr. Roboto vid was entertaining, it sure as hell wasn't sophisticated.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
wait a sec. While the Mr. Roboto vid was entertaining, it sure as hell wasn't sophisticated.
Correct, now apply this piece of information back to my post and you should start to sense the underlying subtext
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFish
Yeah bro, I bet winning 5k in a 2/5 session is common. Must be pretty nice to make 7 figures playing live 2/5 games huh? Man, I can only imagine how awesome that must be, mad props.
If anyone in this thread should know how those games play I wouldve expected it to be you. You know that the game usually plays with a straddle. You also know that most nights the 2/5 game is the biggest game in the room. You also know the idiots that come thru those doors. Does someone win 5k everynight? Probably not. Is it uncommon for someone to win 5k in the game? Not at all and thats all I was saying.

7 figures? Mad props? Nowhere in either of my post did I say I routinely win 5k. Hell, nowhere in my post did I even mention that I play in the damn game. Nice reading comprehension skills.

I was just trying to contribute to the thread by shedding some light on how deep the games play since it appeared to me some people were unaware. I havent played in all that many places but the times I have (venetian/bellagio in particular) there was no comparision in the 2/5 games. This you know as well. If calling me a ****** makes you feel better about yourself then carry on but I dont appreciate it.

I agree with about 2% of what Gabe has said in this thread. And that 2% is how childish you people act. If you disagree thats fine. How about letting me know what you disagree with and we can have a discussion about it like 2 adults? Is that to much to ask for around here? Nice life skills.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 08-24-2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason: You too.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-24-2011 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown

But as far as why I keep coming back here, I do have a reason for that. I have some information that I want to disclose at some point & part of my discussion in this thread is relevant.
One time on a new thread revealing the information OP wants to disclose "at some point"?
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote

      
m