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Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players

08-22-2011 , 12:38 PM
Gabe, I haven't really insulted you at all. As far as my tone, it's the same as over 90% of the people that have posted in this thread.

Why can't you just respond to why you continue to play in these casinos that you say can, and imply will, cheat you? There is absolutely no disrespect or insult intended with that question. Many others, who have been nothing but respectful throughout the thread, have asked you the same question.

Or, if you really refuse to answer anyone who asks you this question regardless of how polite they are, can you just say, 'I'm not going to tell you why I play in venues where I believe I will be cheated.'

But can't you at least see why many of the people reading this thread think that your statement that casinos will cheat you was a cop out to avoid playing a heads up match given that you seem to be playing in these casinos regularly?

I really think this thread started off with Gabe being dead serious, and he is now turning it into a level to save a little face.

Last edited by ucantcme63; 08-22-2011 at 12:54 PM.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
EDD- I actually read through most of the patents you reference. If you look at the process flow chart, you'll see that yes, after the cards are discarded, they go through a device that "blanks them out" (erases the previous markings) so that they can be used again to generate "new" cards with different values. And that is done by using new technology and interactive materials.

The new values are determined by the RNG based upon how many decks you program it for. For eg, if you were playing poker, you would use one deck; if you wanted to replicate an 8 deck BJ shoe, you would use the 8 deck program. They idea is for casinos to have reusable "cards" rather than having to buy so many decks.

But once the cards have been erased, and the new value determined, they still have to go to the "printer" device to have the new values put onto the cards. Those cards then could be physically shuffled and dealt in the poker example.

But once the cards have been printed and physically dealt, they cannot be reconfigured into a different value without going through the "erasing" station and back into the printer. So these patents are not for cards where magically poker cards physically change values while on the table or in the deck in the hands of the dealer.

So while the technology sounds strange, it is not as scary as it seems upfront.

The device you are talking about is only an embodiment of the patent. There are several embodiments as it specifically mentions. The portion of the patent that I listed describes an embodiment that does not use a machine but rather uses a light polarization of certain EM wavelength radiation. The patent describes all kinds of ways it can be done & ways it can be used. There's not much you could tell me that I don't already know by just reading the patent. I've spent a lot of time not only studying this, but gathering information on the people involved & where the cards are being made.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFish
I think it's pretty clear at this point that Gabe has gone off the deep end, and its almost to the point where I think we should actually feel kinda bad for him. But I don't think I could ever stop finding his nonsense hilarious, so I'm kinda torn.

I mean 5-10-occasional300 ?? Actually laughed out loud.


Don't feel bad for me, I'm not the one that's confused. I'm mean how pathetic do you have to be to try & dissect every word a man says. I mean if you can't figure out that 5-10 300 NL means that we had an extremely aggressive 5 10NL game with someone making it 300 in the dark most hands, then your going to have some real problems functioning in society on common sense terms, such as waiting til your 25 to get a Driver License.

BTW, keep on walking
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 01:53 PM
.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 08-22-2011 at 01:56 PM. Reason: zero content/insult
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 02:22 PM
Ok ,I get it. It's ok for 50 posters to attack me for telling the truth, but I can't poke a little fun back without getting deleted.

That pretty much draws the line for me, It's one thing to have to read through all the garbage & insults to get to anything of substance, but another when I get my post censored & can't defend myself. Hypocracy at its greatest.

I'm done here, At least for the 5th time anyway.

Any online player that's serious about playing, PM if your interested in finding out if the Thread is true or false.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 02:31 PM
If a post has been deleted or edited and you believe this is improper or unfair, the proper course of action is to PM the mod who did it (or another NVG mod) and request an explanation, not repost or discuss what was posted in the thread.

Please cease doing so immediately or infractions will follow.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 03:17 PM
While there's certainly some merit to all that live edge stuff, I expect it to be way less significant than the OP makes it seem to be. I won't argue that it will almost definitely skyrocket your win-rate against technically bad-mediocre players that also are not able to hide their emotional relation to the spot they're in as it will often be possible to make -EV decisions online gaining huge EV live by factoring in them giving speeches and being evidently un-/comfortable.
However talking about technically superior players that are disciplined/cool enough to not give anything away or even are leveling-freaks that will go triple-reversed-tell on you all the time, I just don't see how an exclusive live player will be able to derive an edge from that situation. Even the possibility of sick soul reads from time to time included, I don't see how that alone will be enough to make up for being worse concerning game-theoretical aspects.
That said the Top50 live players as in playing almost exclusively live will most likely get crushed by the Top50 online players over a meaningful sample assuming they are not huge tell-boxes when playing live.
Also I think a lot of the time live players tend to play mind games with themselves while there is actually nothing to pick up on whatsoever what is commonly referred to as soul-reading which sometimes works out just as flipping a coin a hundred times will work out in your favor some of the time, but overall will just result in you making clear -EV decisions justifying them by having supposedly epic reads.
Also please forgive me if you should have clarified and/or added some points because I simply am too lazy/preoccupied to read all of your posts. One thing I noticed however is that you seem to give your own live success a lot of weight without taking in the possibility of just running above EV over ten years of live play which definitely will have less validity as grinding out winnings in ten years of online play.
Fwiw I don't even play poker atm and was not successful at all during my time grinding the micros mostly because of being mentally unstable and tending to tilt massively (which might come across as an excuse what might be true although truthfully being a big factor), so I guess it's fair to say my post won't have too much impact whatsoever since showing negative results will definitely discredit me to some degree and maybe even making me seem entirely clownish however I consider myself to be one of the most theoretically sound players not to win at the game which is not only a pretty vague assumption but also a very doubtful brag.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
Ok ,I get it. It's ok for 50 posters to attack me for telling the truth, but I can't poke a little fun back without getting deleted.

That pretty much draws the line for me, It's one thing to have to read through all the garbage & insults to get to anything of substance, but another when I get my post censored & can't defend myself. Hypocracy at its greatest.

I'm done here, At least for the 5th time anyway.


Any online player that's serious about playing, PM if your interested in finding out if the Thread is true or false.

Awesome!
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
Ok ,I get it. It's ok for 50 posters to attack me for telling the truth, but I can't poke a little fun back without getting deleted.

That pretty much draws the line for me, It's one thing to have to read through all the garbage & insults to get to anything of substance, but another when I get my post censored & can't defend myself. Hypocracy at its greatest.

I'm done here, At least for the 5th time anyway.

Any online player that's serious about playing, PM if your interested in finding out if the Thread is true or false.
Even more awesome. Dude, you're too much. This thread is obviously neither true, or false. This thread is just Gabe period.

LMAO.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |)r. W4ts0n
While there's certainly some merit to all that live edge stuff, I expect it to be way less significant than the OP makes it seem to be. I won't argue that it will almost definitely skyrocket your win-rate against technically bad-mediocre players that also are not able to hide their emotional relation to the spot they're in as it will often be possible to make -EV decisions online gaining huge EV live by factoring in them giving speeches and being evidently un-/comfortable.
However talking about technically superior players that are disciplined/cool enough to not give anything away or even are leveling-freaks that will go triple-reversed-tell on you all the time, I just don't see how an exclusive live player will be able to derive an edge from that situation. Even the possibility of sick soul reads from time to time included, I don't see how that alone will be enough to make up for being worse concerning game-theoretical aspects.
That said the Top50 live players as in playing almost exclusively live will most likely get crushed by the Top50 online players over a meaningful sample assuming they are not huge tell-boxes when playing live.
Also I think a lot of the time live players tend to play mind games with themselves while there is actually nothing to pick up on whatsoever what is commonly referred to as soul-reading which sometimes works out just as flipping a coin a hundred times will work out in your favor some of the time, but overall will just result in you making clear -EV decisions justifying them by having supposedly epic reads.
Also please forgive me if you should have clarified and/or added some points because I simply am too lazy/preoccupied to read all of your posts. One thing I noticed however is that you seem to give your own live success a lot of weight without taking in the possibility of just running above EV over ten years of live play which definitely will have less validity as grinding out winnings in ten years of online play.
Fwiw I don't even play poker atm and was not successful at all during my time grinding the micros mostly because of being mentally unstable and tending to tilt massively (which might come across as an excuse what might be true although truthfully being a big factor), so I guess it's fair to say my post won't have too much impact whatsoever since showing negative results will definitely discredit me to some degree and maybe even making me seem entirely clownish however I consider myself to be one of the most theoretically sound players not to win at the game which is not only a pretty vague assumption but also a very doubtful brag.
You joined a year and a half ago and this is only your third post?

Good job, post more IMO.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 03:39 PM
Whats the O/U?
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDtown
Don't feel bad for me, I'm not the one that's confused. I'm mean how pathetic do you have to be to try & dissect every word a man says. I mean if you can't figure out that 5-10 300 NL means that we had an extremely aggressive 5 10NL game with someone making it 300 in the dark most hands, then your going to have some real problems functioning in society on common sense terms, such as waiting til your 25 to get a Driver License.

BTW, keep on walking
I know exactly what you mean. The other night i was playing in a 5-10 7 63 46 3.14 42 13 1400 333 7-11 game, which as I'm sure you know, means i was in a 5-10 seven handed game with a 63 year-old man who looked exactly like Buddy Ryan that was eating some pie and kept talking as if he knew the answer to everything but got unlucky and lost $1400 with bottom set versus a gentleman from Pakistan.

Obv
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daliman
I know exactly what you mean. The other night i was playing in a 5-10 7 63 46 3.14 42 13 1400 333 7-11 game, which as I'm sure you know, means i was in a 5-10 seven handed game with a 63 year-old man who looked exactly like Buddy Ryan that was eating some pie and kept talking as if he knew the answer to everything but got unlucky and lost $1400 with bottom set versus a gentleman from Pakistan.

Obv
I was drinking soda when I read this and now my nose is burning.

Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daliman
I know exactly what you mean. The other night i was playing in a 5-10 7 63 46 3.14 42 13 1400 333 7-11 game, which as I'm sure you know, means i was in a 5-10 seven handed game with a 63 year-old man who looked exactly like Buddy Ryan that was eating some pie and kept talking as if he knew the answer to everything but got unlucky and lost $1400 with bottom set versus a gentleman from Pakistan.

Obv
classic, I read it 3 times, laughed each time.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daliman
I know exactly what you mean. The other night i was playing in a 5-10 7 63 46 3.14 42 13 1400 333 7-11 game, which as I'm sure you know, means i was in a 5-10 seven handed game with a 63 year-old man who looked exactly like Buddy Ryan that was eating some pie and kept talking as if he knew the answer to everything but got unlucky and lost $1400 with bottom set versus a gentleman from Pakistan.

Obv
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:23 PM
lol@Buddy Ryan reference (46)
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinvain
You joined a year and a half ago and this is only your third post?

Good job, post more IMO.
thx, unless being levelled which seems to happen a lot around here but not really having a reason to assume you are, I'll take that as a compliment. =)

The cause for my inactivity for that time is pretty obvious being a) a losing player and honestly having felt ashamed about it and being b) a transsexual. If a) is not sufficient enough to get flamed on, I'm sure b) is.
And while I could just be anonymous and not give away anything, I tend to be rather honest which may or may not be something to be proud of.

Now that I've included that in this post, I'd like to add that I will not respond to any troll-posts of some chauvinistic weirdos, that although often times being older than 12 act like they just graduaded from pre-school, referring to my sexuality and what-not. Also it would be appreciated to not get "nice hand"/"well played"-sir'ed by the people who read this post and decide not to go berserk flaming their brains out on me.

And no, I am not trolling myself which would be perfectly possible but not really attractive, especially considering I would be taking on a role based on which I'd be an easy target for discrediting/verbal abuse and the likes. I guess some people might get some twisted enjoyment out of something like this though.

Also I realize all of this might be a huge mistake thinking about the fact that for example Annette Obrestad regretted even mentioning as little as that she was female and definitely got treated differentely in a rather unbenifitial way.

Therefore the flaming season on trannies is now officially open but I'm afraid you might not get as much pleasure out of it as you would imagine since I've learned to ignore stupid comments from 14-18ish boys as well as the obvious giggling from girls in about the same age, though actually usually being younger, and I frankly don't care anymore. I'm afraid the most you'll get out of me will be me rolling my eyes from time to time...poor trollies :,((
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:35 PM
A simple "thanks" would have sufficed.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |)r. W4ts0n
thx, unless being levelled which seems to happen a lot around here but not really having a reason to assume you are, I'll take that as a compliment. =)

The cause for my inactivity for that time is pretty obvious being a) a losing player and honestly having felt ashamed about it and being b) a transsexual. If a) is not sufficient enough to get flamed on, I'm sure b) is.
And while I could just be anonymous and not give away anything, I tend to be rather honest which may or may not be something to be proud of.

Now that I've included that in this post, I'd like to add that I will not respond to any troll-posts of some chauvinistic weirdos, that although often times being older than 12 act like they just graduaded from pre-school, referring to my sexuality and what-not. Also it would be appreciated to not get "nice hand"/"well played"-sir'ed by the people who read this post and decide not to go berserk flaming their brains out on me.

And no, I am not trolling myself which would be perfectly possible but not really attractive, especially considering I would be taking on a role based on which I'd be an easy target for discrediting/verbal abuse and the likes. I guess some people might get some twisted enjoyment out of something like this though.

Also I realize all of this might be a huge mistake thinking about the fact that for example Annette Obrestad regretted even mentioning as little as that she was female and definitely got treated differentely in a rather unbenifitial way.

Therefore the flaming season on trannies is now officially open but I'm afraid you might not get as much pleasure out of it as you would imagine since I've learned to ignore stupid comments from 14-18ish boys as well as the obvious giggling from girls in about the same age, though actually usually being younger, and I frankly don't care anymore. I'm afraid the most you'll get out of me will be me rolling my eyes from time to time...poor trollies :,((
Uh, ok? Apparently you had something to get off your chest...

Anyway, back to Gabe "All Talk" Costner and the vagaries of the Beau Rivage 5-10 300 game where he and his GF apparently share a BR and play at the same table.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexdotcom
I feel like a high-stakes player now in my 1-2-200 game.
since 5-10-300 means a 5/10 game where people raise to 300 preflop(30bb){This is very strange, how can you play post flop if you raise to 30bb preflop? and which idiot would call 30bb open preflop?},


by same standards, 1-2-200 means a 1/2 game where people raise to 200 preflop(100bb)...I would never want to play in either of the games
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfAces
since 5-10-300 means a 5/10 game where people raise to 300 preflop(30bb){This is very strange, how can you play post flop if you raise to 30bb preflop? and which idiot would call 30bb open preflop?},


by same standards, 1-2-200 means a 1/2 game where people raise to 200 preflop(100bb)...I would never want to play in either of the games
Apparently there are many online players who aren't aware that live games can be very, very deep.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfAces
since 5-10-300 means a 5/10 game where people raise to 300 preflop(30bb){This is very strange, how can you play post flop if you raise to 30bb preflop? and which idiot would call 30bb open preflop?},


by same standards, 1-2-200 means a 1/2 game where people raise to 200 preflop(100bb)...I would never want to play in either of the games

The Beau Rivage cash games play MUCH larger then anywhere else in the country, atleast that I have seen. It seems most people commenting are unaware of this as they seem to be scratching their heads when Gabe says he won 9k at a 2/5 or 25k at 5/10. Apparantly this weekend there was a group from out of town and they were spewing big money around in the 5/10 game. I wasnt there to witness, nor do I really care, but from what I heard 25k certainly seems possible.

An example of how big the games are, most people sit in the 2/5 with 1500-2500min. Some with 5k+ and its no shock to see someone sit down with 10k. When the 5/10 is running (usually on the weekends) you better have 10k+. If you sit with a standard online starting stack of a 100bb in any game at the beau, you're basically playing 1 hand.

So to answer your question, how can you play postflop when someone opens to 30bb preflop? Its easy, you buy in with 500 to 1,000 big blinds.

I just wanted to clear that up. Now carry on....
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartersack
The Beau Rivage cash games play MUCH larger then anywhere else in the country, atleast that I have seen. It seems most people commenting are unaware of this as they seem to be scratching their heads when Gabe says he won 9k at a 2/5 or 25k at 5/10. Apparantly this weekend there was a group from out of town and they were spewing big money around in the 5/10 game. I wasnt there to witness, nor do I really care, but from what I heard 25k certainly seems possible.

An example of how big the games are, most people sit in the 2/5 with 1500-2500min. Some with 5k+ and its no shock to see someone sit down with 10k. When the 5/10 is running (usually on the weekends) you better have 10k+. If you sit with a standard online starting stack of a 100bb in any game at the beau, you're basically playing 1 hand.

So to answer your question, how can you play postflop when someone opens to 30bb preflop? Its easy, you buy in with 500 to 1,000 big blinds.

I just wanted to clear that up. Now carry on....
Guess that means I won't be playing at that casino any time soon.

Is that standard nomenclature for such a game, though? 1/2/300? I've never heard someone refer to a game like that before.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 08:13 PM
Please tell me some of you guys are aliens, I mean seriously. It's almost like you speak a foreign language & don't understand common language.

Obviously the opening raise wasn't 300 for everyone. It was one player tilting & raising pretty much blind.

This is a good example of why real live players make fun of online players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJU5...eature=related
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote
08-22-2011 , 08:41 PM
This kind of language is very common in describing live games that play very large, i.e. it is very common to see $1-$2 games where opening raises are $50, so people refer to it jokingly as a $1-$2-$50 game. 5-10-300 is pretty extreme.
Live play vs. Online & why the Top ten players in the world will always be live players Quote

      
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