Daliman, I left vegas yesterday after claudia busted the main event.

are there live tells in daytrading that you exploit?

can you beat anyone in the world heads up in daytrading? (if variance evens out obviously)

would you assume i am delusional about the live game?

do you think you ruffled feathers with this thread?

am i going to eventually learn the hard way if i continue to play live poker?

If you are the best in the world then you must have played with phil ivey, yes?
Can you tell us what are phil ivey's tells are please?

most of he the top live players probably got their start in online tho.

Not that it means anything but I've only played with Ivey in tournaments & I've busted him twice, WPT tunica 10k & $1500 PLO rebuy 2008. That obvious doesn't mean anything since he doesn't play his A game in tournaments until he gets a lot of chips, He was more or less gambling

How convenient. Please PM me when you both are coming in town again, I eagerly await my 2-1 odds.

P.S. People still daytrade? Thought that died out with the market crash early 2000's.

There are more people making a living daytrading than poker, they also make money when the market goes down. It is much much tougher than poker though, more discipline, patients, but still similar tight aggressive works well, stay out until you have the edge, then trade big

So is this the same Gabe Costner who was in "Dances With Kotter"?

Or was it "Welcome Back Wolves"?

Oh man I just crack myself up sometimes! LOOOOOOOOOL

P.S. Nice rack you bought yourself there.

C+

how can you call yourself the best in the world if you haven't play with phil ivey??

To be fair, he hasn't called himself the best in the world, (in so many words). He has said his GF, who he teaches, is the best in the world, and that he has never played with anyone he doesn't think he can beat if the cards break even.

These threads are all the same. You're using live poker as the neutral grading tool for both online and live players which is wrong/arbitrary. The "top" 100 players can include a mixed bag of live and online players, yet as soon as you start taking each individual out of their element and subject them to the opposite, the assessment becomes inaccurate. It's the exact same thing as putting an MMA fighter in a boxing ring with Mayweather. When he likely will lose, you don't start saying "boxers" are the best combat athletes in the world. Vice versa is true as well obviously where Mayweather would get his ass handed to him in the octagon, but it doesn't mean MMA fighters are better athletes. But it's not even limited to that, because most top players play both types of poker anyways. Live may have some extra aspects to it which are skill-suspceptible like live-reads and the absence of HUDs, but the same is true for online which has extra aspects that live doesn't have. This whole debate is ******ed. It's just people picking sides based on what arena they are accustomed to.

canoodles, You are right to a certain point, It's comparing 2 different things, However my point was that the skill level to play perfect in live poker(which we will never reach) is much much much higher than online because there are so many more variables. The sky is the limit in live play, The tiers of elite players are a gap above good players because of this.

Online you could get close to a solved game, but were not even close in live play, many great players are still getting better & just starting to understand the other variables. There is a science behind it & an FBI interrogator or body language expert could help

I also did not say that I was the best in the world, I could never say that because I haven't played with everyone & there are players that we will never meet. What I will say is that it is an opinion of mine that I personally haven't played with anyone yet that I feel like has an edge over me, I feel there are some that I would play pretty even with, but they are not the same guys you read about on forums, I have met players that I think are better at NL holdem than what the popular opinions are

Yeah, def not my best material, and prob not very original either.

Hopefully Gabe isn't a deadly serious kinda guy, and doesn't weigh in at 6'8" and 300+ lbs.

To this day there are still players that stare at the flop when making decisions, Good players that some think are or close to the best, I will just say that if your are in a hand & not looking at your opponent, only staring at the board, You could never be the best player, maybe online , but not in live play where the skill level required to play close to solved poker is much higher, therefor why I say that the best player in the world is a live player.

stop with the god damn circular argument. Of course the best live players are the best live players

How are you defining 'the best'? Is it an opinion based on feeling and personal experience? Or is it actually something that can be quantified?

I will say that there are some players that don't give off much, There natural posture, facial expressions & other things that I won't go into since gives too much information away. Some players I would find it tough to beat if they dont give a lot away, others are like an open book (even some good players). I might not personally have an edge over the player that plays great & doesn't give away much, but I could extract more money from a game than they could where some of the players do give away information because I can interpret it & they don't.

Do you consider game selection a poker skill?

So its possible that I could play player X (great online player, math based, but has learned not to give away certain basic info) . I might have difficult time beating them head up.

However if me & player X sits in a ring game, I would expect to win more money from bad players that do give away tells, but maybe not necessarily beat him much playing HU.

So there are different ways to interpret the best

Game selection would probably be more discipline than a poker skill, It's obviously hugely important & I would say there is some skill in interpreting the game, but you don''t have to be the best to win, only play lower competition, or at least play where better competition is tilting or gambling

Now Im lost.

EDDtown,

I think your points in this thread may well be very good ones - and as an almost exclusively online player, I suspect that I might be making a big mistake here with the following offer.

I can tell you that in the last four years or so, I have only played live a total of about 20-25 sessions - and most of those have come since Black Friday. Furthermore, I can tell you that I have NEVER even been to Las Vegas since becoming a poker player. If what you are saying is true, then you will have a huge edge over me, because I truly can't pick up much in the way of physical tells when I play live. Despite that, I am willing to offer you a challenge.

I will play you heads up live for any stakes that you wish. I will play deep stacked (say 300-500bb?) which is of course more in line with the live play that you have so much experience with (as opposed to my 100bb online experience). If the stakes are high enough, I will travel to anywhere that is convenient for you to set up this match. We can play for a predetermined amount - or if you prefer, for a given amount of time.

Again, I emphasize that I have hardly ever played live - so if your statements about live tells and reads are correct, then you will have a huge edge over me. Nonetheless, I am willing to take on the challenge: perhaps it will be a learning experience for me. If you are willing to take me up on the challenge, please send me a message. I only come on to 2p2 once every few days at the most, so please forgive me if I don't respond immediately. I am looking forward to hopefully playing you.

Niman

Wrong profession.

Please have your protege play Daliman. Surely if you think she can win then the amount of profit far outweighs any "loss" you'll have from taking a few days off from the markets. This bet can also be done over a weekend when the markets are closed.