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Old 07-26-2016, 07:58 PM   #201
festeringZit
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by Kowabunghole View Post
they make you sign a crapload of paperwork. its pretty sketch and its a dump. def gonna be shut down

"they make you sign a crapload of paperwork"

Why are you lying on here?
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:20 PM   #202
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

I'm not lying, depending on your definition of "a crapload". pretty much they want you to acknowledge that what you're doing is illegal, from what I could tell. I want legal poker to exist in texas as much as the next guy but this doesn't seem right.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:47 PM   #203
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post

He's invested a lot of money and time into this venture, and I'd think if he was in the slightest bit worried, he wouldn't be opening yet
another location 4th quarter of this year.
you seem pretty tuned into these TX clubs.

I'd love to see poker rooms legal and running in every state, so please dont take this wrong way.

TX law (and most state laws) make it illegal to derive economic benefit from operating a gambling operation or game of chance.

Charging a membership fee under social club model makes sense and I could see how that could be defended.

But charging $8 to rent a chair to play at a poker table seems like a pretty clear violation of the law.

How do these club owners argue that the seat charge is in bounds with state law?
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:23 PM   #204
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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you seem pretty tuned into these TX clubs.

I'd love to see poker rooms legal and running in every state, so please dont take this wrong way.

TX law (and most state laws) make it illegal to derive economic benefit from operating a gambling operation or game of chance.

Charging a membership fee under social club model makes sense and I could see how that could be defended.

But charging $8 to rent a chair to play at a poker table seems like a pretty clear violation of the law.

How do these club owners argue that the seat charge is in bounds with state law?
I'm not arguing that what he's doing is or isn't within the letter or spirit of the law, I'm just saying that he has a close relationship with the powers that be, and they've given him the ok.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:23 PM   #205
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
People pay entry fees in golf tournaments in Texas and then receive cash prizes based on their performance, which is partially influenced by chance.
Read PTLou's post #195. Entry fees in chess, bridge, golf, etc. is not "betting" so it is legal.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:24 PM   #206
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by Kowabunghole View Post
I'm not lying, depending on your definition of "a crapload". pretty much they want you to acknowledge that what you're doing is illegal, from what I could tell. I want legal poker to exist in texas as much as the next guy but this doesn't seem right.
I had to fill out a short form once there, don't remember anything on the form having anything to do with acknowledging illegalities. One short form
is a far cry from "crapload."
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:36 PM   #207
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

ill take the over on 5 pages. anyway, if you don't find that place sketchy then you're wanting super hard. I took my dad there (having never been there myself) and he looked at me like I was Frankenstein when we got there.
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Old 07-27-2016, 12:10 AM   #208
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by Kowabunghole View Post
ill take the over on 5 pages. anyway, if you don't find that place sketchy then you're wanting super hard. I took my dad there (having never been there myself) and he looked at me like I was Frankenstein when we got there.
The only form I ever filled out was 1/2 a page. Are we talking
about the same place? Manchaca?
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Old 07-27-2016, 12:43 AM   #209
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

Austin tx is the one I'm talking about
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:40 AM   #210
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
I'm not arguing that what he's doing is or isn't within the letter or spirit of the law, I'm just saying that he has a close relationship with the powers that be, and they've given him the ok.
The powers that be that seem to matter here are the local police and district attorney's vs. state legislators or staffers or employees in state govt.

Any "OK" from the state would come in the form of a letter of opinion from the state AG interpreting the current law.

Sans a well structured legal argument, I would agree with SBA above that its just a matter of time before they are shutdown. The more that open , the bigger they get, the sooner that likely happens.

Just takes one vocal, local politician, religious leader, etc who thinks gambling/poker is the devils work (prob a few of those in TX ), or any criminal incident at the club to create some noise and local DA / police will be forced to act.

I was hoping these guys had done something more substantial with legal footing for their clubs, as it could provide strategy for other states since most state gaming laws around this issue are similar.

just sounds like more whack a mole .
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:28 AM   #211
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

There are 2 open in Houston now.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:33 AM   #212
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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There are 2 open in Houston now.

Locations? Links?
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:23 PM   #213
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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There are 2 open in Houston now.
Are these the same Houston Clubs that have been open for years. though I have never been in one, I've heard they are just straight out raked poker rooms. clearly not legal under TX law but left alone by local authorities. sort of above ground , yet basically underground games, if that makes sense.

Or, are you saying there are new membership / social club models opening in Houston?
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:55 PM   #214
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

The 2 I mentioned are like the ones in Austin and San Antonio that this thread is about. 1 is Texas All In lounge (texasallinlounge.com) near Beltway 8 and Bellaire and the others website is club333.biz . It's website has info. It is near Pearland off Beltway 8. A former raked underground game guy opened it. Both I think are spreading 1/2 nl.

I haven't played in either so can't comment on quality of players or games. I stick to the higher raked, higher blinds underground games in Houston with some of the worst players in the nation
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:17 AM   #215
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
The 2 I mentioned are like the ones in Austin and San Antonio that this thread is about. 1 is Texas All In lounge (texasallinlounge.com) near Beltway 8 and Bellaire and the others website is club333.biz . It's website has info. It is near Pearland off Beltway 8. A former raked underground game guy opened it. Both I think are spreading 1/2 nl.

I haven't played in either so can't comment on quality of players or games. I stick to the higher raked, higher blinds underground games in Houston with some of the worst players in the nation
How much are your games raking? I've just started playing again in Houston and the only game i've been to takes 17max for a 2/5 game.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:36 PM   #216
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

I played this room for the first time last night. Well run place. Nothing fancy, but it's clean and the tables are decent. I spoke with the guy running it after I finished my session, and he was pretty transparent on some of the hassles and hoops they've had to deal with, but had no hint of anyone trying to shut them down. Overall, the place feels like a lodge game...definitely doesn't have the seedy feeling of many underground games I've played before.

I had to pay a $20 monthly membership fee up front, then left my ID at the cage. I got it back at the end of the night when I cashed out.

3 tables of 1/2 were full when I arrived, and I had a short wait for my seat. The 'lobby' area is clean and efficient, and complimentary wifi was decent enough to pass the wait watching youtube.

Standard buy-in for 1/2 is $100 min $300 max when a table starts, but you can buy in up to the big stack otherwise. I came in for $500. The game itself was pretty soft, but was your typical 1/2 crowd. A couple of OMCs, couple of pay-off wizards, and a decent asian kid. So not too hard to crack with a standard TAG game. They do sit 10 to a table as opposed to the standard 9 I'm used to, but it didn't really change the dynamic.

There is plenty of action in this room. I ran my stack up to over $1300 before I cashed out, and there was about $6k on the table total. It didn't really play like a 2/5 (PF sizing was pretty standard, and straddles were rare), but the deeper stacks led to some pretty decent pots and reloads of $400-500 were pretty common.

The table next to mine was pretty insane. They were playing 1/2, then switched to PLO at some point. Maybe $10k on that table, and they were all playing for action.

I cashed out around 1am, and paid $32 in time for my 3+ hours (they round up to the next hour, and you can pay in chips, cash, or card), and they handed back my ID. Overall, left with a profit of just under $800, having paid a total of $52 in fees (including the $20 membership). Even with the membership fee, this is without a doubt the best structure I have available to me. Out of force of habit, I tossed the dealer a tip after the first hand I won, and they immediately tossed it back. They are VERY strict about that, and wouldn't accept a tip under any circumstance.

All in all, I enjoyed the venue. I'd definitely play there more if I lived in the area, but as it stands now I'll just have to enjoy it when I'm in Austin for work and have the time to play cards.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:48 PM   #217
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by Kowabunghole View Post
Austin tx is the one I'm talking about
Which, as anyone familiar with Austin SHOULD know, incorporates Manchaca.
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Old 07-28-2016, 01:23 PM   #218
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

I don't listen to hip hop
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:20 PM   #219
michelle227
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowabunghole View Post
I don't listen to hip hop
and what relevance is that? I don't either...but even when I lived in north Austin, I still knew that Manchaca was south Austin because it was on the traffic reports just about every morning and every evening. If someone is remotely familiar with the city, they are going to know that Manchaca is an Austin-area address...
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:46 PM   #220
faxanadu
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Perm View Post
I played this room for the first time last night. Well run place. Nothing fancy, but it's clean and the tables are decent. I spoke with the guy running it after I finished my session, and he was pretty transparent on some of the hassles and hoops they've had to deal with, but had no hint of anyone trying to shut them down. Overall, the place feels like a lodge game...definitely doesn't have the seedy feeling of many underground games I've played before.

I had to pay a $20 monthly membership fee up front, then left my ID at the cage. I got it back at the end of the night when I cashed out.

3 tables of 1/2 were full when I arrived, and I had a short wait for my seat. The 'lobby' area is clean and efficient, and complimentary wifi was decent enough to pass the wait watching youtube.

Standard buy-in for 1/2 is $100 min $300 max when a table starts, but you can buy in up to the big stack otherwise. I came in for $500. The game itself was pretty soft, but was your typical 1/2 crowd. A couple of OMCs, couple of pay-off wizards, and a decent asian kid. So not too hard to crack with a standard TAG game. They do sit 10 to a table as opposed to the standard 9 I'm used to, but it didn't really change the dynamic.

There is plenty of action in this room. I ran my stack up to over $1300 before I cashed out, and there was about $6k on the table total. It didn't really play like a 2/5 (PF sizing was pretty standard, and straddles were rare), but the deeper stacks led to some pretty decent pots and reloads of $400-500 were pretty common.

The table next to mine was pretty insane. They were playing 1/2, then switched to PLO at some point. Maybe $10k on that table, and they were all playing for action.

I cashed out around 1am, and paid $32 in time for my 3+ hours (they round up to the next hour, and you can pay in chips, cash, or card), and they handed back my ID. Overall, left with a profit of just under $800, having paid a total of $52 in fees (including the $20 membership). Even with the membership fee, this is without a doubt the best structure I have available to me. Out of force of habit, I tossed the dealer a tip after the first hand I won, and they immediately tossed it back. They are VERY strict about that, and wouldn't accept a tip under any circumstance.

All in all, I enjoyed the venue. I'd definitely play there more if I lived in the area, but as it stands now I'll just have to enjoy it when I'm in Austin for work and have the time to play cards.
My elementary math says this guy is probably making a profit of 100-150K/year. Is this typical for small businesses that don't fail?
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Old 07-31-2016, 04:29 AM   #221
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
I had to fill out a short form once there, don't remember anything on the form having anything to do with acknowledging illegalities. One short form
is a far cry from "crapload."
Went by there tonight. Form was about 7 pages and there was a section roughly saying that though they believe what they're doing is legal you are recognizing you may be participating in something illegal.

Game was good but place didn't seem real secure to me.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:50 PM   #222
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

this guy gets it
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:22 PM   #223
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

The poker club looks like its in someone's basement.
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:30 PM   #224
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by scratchy1 View Post
Went by there tonight. Form was about 7 pages and there was a section roughly saying that though they believe what they're doing is legal you are recognizing you may be participating in something illegal.

Game was good but place didn't seem real secure to me.
Sounds about right on all accounts.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:17 PM   #225
D_Lonnigan
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Re: Legal poker in Texas

The club is in Manchaca. That is just south of downtown Austin. It is NOT considered Austin, it is Travis County. Therefore the Austin Vice Squad has no jurisdiction. So you can disregard any "Austin Vice" posts or ramblings.

Second, the club itself is in a dump of a building. 5 tables total. There is a cash cage and a small lobby. Parking is good. Bathrooms are clean. Free water and free wifi.

Third, the seat rental deal is very sketchy. I am not sure how he gets around the Texas law. I can understand if it was a monthly membership to a club and they offered poker. No problem. But seat rental in a poker game is borderline in my opinion.

Finally, the club has been open for 16 months. They have a security guard (armed) at all times. Never been a fight or any kind of issue. Hopefully the AG will just leave it alone and let it be. Otherwise we go back to $12 raked 1/2 games.
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