Can you give me an example of one? I'd like to reach out to the owner. This is a high margin business that a lot of people won't consider getting into even if it were legal. It seems there would be a lot of money to be made in the sex biz. I already have potential sites in mind that could be developed.

Dream crusher the issue a prosecutor would face against these rooms is the statute is ambiguous if you need to receive an economic benefit from the gambling itself (like raking the game or being the house in black jack) or are you illegal because you receive An economic benefit because people came to your club because they want to gamble and you can sell them services that make them more comfortable (like the use of a chair). If it's just general then a buddy showing up to you house to play poker who brings you a six pack of beer has made you a criminal and this statute is designed to stop casino gambling which these rooms are not. Most of a potential jury's super bowl parties are also illegal. You will not get a jury of twelve people in Texas that think that is illegal if you have a trial lawyer that is halfway decent. Hence it's unlikely a prosecutor would even risk a prosecution because an Acquital is a very public advertisement of legality. A prosecutor who wanted to stop this would Either write a threatening cease and dissing letter or maybe make an arrest and try and intimidate the owner into taking a deal that includes ceasing operations. The only problem with that is that the crime is a class A misdomener. max penalty is 1 year in jail and 4K fine. Most counties in urban areas in Texas give you 3-1 credit on time served meaning at worse your facing 122 day in county jail if the judge throws the book at you which for a first offender with a pretty decent argument they lacked criminal intent even if it was illegal he is not going to do.

Cannot speak to the Austin and Plano locations, but I know some have deliberately sought out locations that were outside of city limits. When one is operating in an unincorporated area, even with a city mailing address, you are then down to basically the Sheriff needing to get involved.

Further, unless the County Attorney (the entity that often prosecutes misdemeanors in Texas) really gives a damn, they are not going to give the Sheriff marching orders to go effect a raid for misdemeanors that will likely only result in a fine and MAYBE a very short period of deferred adjudication community supervision.

It becomes more of an issue (like with 8-liners) when the owners begin flaunting the money they are bringing in AND use that money to support the wrong person in an election cycle.

They are doing it right at Poker Rooms of Texas in Plano.

They have upgraded dealers over the past month.
They have upgraded safety with more cameras, more lighting, and more security guards.
They have upgraded member amenities.

They are now open 7 days per week.
They have 1/2 and 2/5 NLH
They have 1/2 PLO (high only)

Surprised they don't run all day on Saturday (ie start Friday night and close Sunday morning). Looks like they have 8 tables. That's good. The chairs look just as uncomfortable as the chairs at winstar, so that's not really a negative I suppose. I'm guessing the games are 10 handed since that would make them more money. That would be a negative.

Funny to hear everyone argue about this. In Texas, if the house makes any profit whatsoever, the place can be shut down. Doesn't matter if its thru rake, seat fees, door fees, membership fees, profit on alcohol or food. I've seen free bar tournaments shut down at bars, restaurants, club houses at golf courses. If the DA, county Atty or sheriff decides they don't like them, or better yet a large donor or group of donors decide they don't like them, they will shut them down. They're all on borrowed time. Easier and more profitable to run a raked game that garners no attention and can be easily moved and started somewhere else the next week. Good news is the players very rarely face any type of charges in either type of situation. At most they lose their buy in for the night, usually not even that. I've seen LE let everyone cash out before they make everyone leave.

Shutting down through a raid and getting a conviction in front of 12 people in a jury box are two very separate things. Could a DA get an arrest warrant? Probably, but that is just the first step. The DA then has to go and convince 12 people in a box this places doesn't meet the affirmative defense in the statute. I'm a trial lawyer, I'd feel pretty confident defending any of these places in front of a Jury.

I'd feel pretty confident prosecuting them also.

So they are just charging for "seat rental" and not charging me to play poker? So I can bring my own chair or stand and play for free right? No? Oh.

Interesting in trying out Texas Card House in Austin.

What do I need to get a cash seat as early in the evening as possible? Not interested in tournaments.

I thought about that and as an owner i would say..yes you can bring your own chair - membership for chairs are $100 for the night...please have the chair sign here please

Actually if this came up - I would say to the guy - yes you may stand all night...and play...being that it would be so uncomfortable I doubt they would come back

Some nits would definitely be willing to stand and play.

Agreed...but there is also the "right to refuse service" - they could play once....

I will give you an example - I was having a game and the table was full...a player that I didn't want in my home came in - there were 4 people waiting and I told him...he was #7 on the list (more players coming)

As the night wore on - players came and went..until we were down to 9...he asked ...seat open...I said....no - more players coming...you are number 7 on the list....

After about 4 hours..and we were down to 4 players and about to break - he asked one of my dealers on break when he could expect to play....The dealer looked at him and said...."you really don't get it do you...you are never going to get a seat"....

Sounds like the line that I was given by every beautiful girl I asked out ....
"no in this lifetime"....and i would answer - "Soooo there is a chance in the next one?"

FWIW recently visited a similar card room in San Antonio. You can google the details of this card room located in a city where businesses commonly attach the moniker of 'Alamo city' to their name if you'd like.

I played in a well paced half PLO | half PLO8 structured as 1-2 blind and complete to 5 to come in, plus true Mississippi straddle, although no one straddled anywhere but the button while I was playing. The dealers knew the pot with no hesitation at any given moment and were rarely incorrect. The play was mid-level in sophistication, as you might find at other 1-2-5 PLO games or 8-16 O/8 games in other areas of the country. Two tables ran Omaha, some tournament was on the final table and the other 10 tables or so were running 1-2. There was an interest list for 2-5 but it didn't run. Coffee and water provided; this venue allows no alcohol of any type (TABC discussion would be a whole different thread). Guards were armed and visible inside and out. Friendly, but definitely there.

Second night I played 1-2 NL briefly. Standard recreational donk fest stuff. A 2-5 game started up and I moved over there. Still a little crazy play, but there was definitely a sense that the 2-5 game was the "grinders table" or at least that is certainly the image they all gave off. Made a few good folds, a few hero calls that worked out, ran a bluff or two and of course donked off a chunk of chips. All in a night's fun.

As their website you googled states they charge a membership fee to hang out in the room doing whatever you'd like to do. If you choose to sit at one of the games, you will also be charged for ... Website says "seat fee" ... person who collects the fees says "your time fee" ... ($8/hr no grace) and otherwise there is no money collected out of pots for any reason or taken off the table for anything like tips or tokes. I did note a few players would tip the dealers in cash as that dealer left the table, or as that player left the cardhouse. I would say it was a 10% or less activity in a small observed sample size. If you are wondering, I did not tip as I was only carrying big bills and no one dealt *that* well. lol.

Local home game runners, generally speaking, hate these rooms and I understand why ... there certainly are a lot of players at the venue instead of someone's den. On the flip side, I can go to this room and play PLO/PLO8 which is what I'd prefer to play anyway, which a home game is not able to offer ("no one is interested")

This particular house has been open for three years I believe, and one year in their new location.

So I went to check out the Plano room a few days ago since I was in town picking up the kids from grandmas house.

The Dealers were on par with most OK dealers except for one guy who seemed to be buddy's with a few guys and was slow AF and way too chatty. The room is nothing to write home about but the tables and chairs aren't bad. After playing for just over 3 hours and owing the house 30 bucks for the time.....it seemed pretty easy to show a profit. Almost makes me want to move back. Would have been nice to play when I lived in Plano and 4 miles away. Now that I live in Ok I'm still 50 minutes from the nearest room...oh well.

Took my first trip out to TCH in Austin this week. I've been all over Austin to play, this place rivaled them all.

They had 4 full tables of 1/2 going, where everyone was playing pretty deep 200BB+ and then one 5/5 PLO table going. They had no problem creating action from open (at 6pm) to close.

I'm still debating if it's the best value though compared to the other places around town.

I'm sure the raked home games are taking more than $5 a pot, but they give out generous bonuses. If you can sit down and get a 10% buy in bonus it's pretty much rake back for 3-4 hours of play. Plus the raked games typically have free food and drink. Texas Card House only had free drink.

$30 a month for a membership and then $10 an hour table charge currently. Anyone have an idea how closely those fees would resemble a deep 1/2 casino game?

I'd say this, you definitely "feel" the cost to play more paying the table wage at cash out. Easier to stomach it if it's raked.

In general, I estimate rake takes about 50% of gross profits for a positive EV player.

The private games in North Dallas are the fishiest I've ever seen, and I lived in vegas and cali

Yes, rake is higher but many rooms give you 10% buyin bonus up to $50-100 depending on stakes. Some do splash pots also for cash or massages.
Waitresses are hot and some rooms even have topless waitresses.
Lot of upkeep with these rooms, expensive rent, food and booze, security it adds up.
Games are so much better than casino games.
I will never play at that "rake free" room after hearing of the raping they give to tournament players

I played at Tilt Poker room in Tyler on Saturday. 1-2 NLH game, reminded me of the games in Shreveport/Bossier except with lots of regs and no action players.

I've never heard of this, what is that "rake free" room?

A place that claims they take no rake but you are charged a fee per hour at the table, which is a rake. You also have to pay for a membership fee also.

But the great one is if you play in their tournament, players said they were charged the tourney fee and then paid per hour they were still in. So like a $100 tourney that lasts 5 hours you'd pay $9+5 hours lol

I looked up the pricing on the tourney and that's pretty reasonable compared to the Wynn's $10K GT tourney that charges $180+$25 per entry. You can't compare a live tournament to an online tournament because everything is cheaper online.

Huh? According to the previous post if you play a 5hr tournament then you pay a $10 membership fee plus $9 for each hour played. In total you would pay rake for $55 for a $100 tournament. That is in no way comparable to a tournament at Wynn.

If you compare to only the bare minimum of the $10K GT at the Wynn, which is $10K, then you're saving money by $50 sticking to the $100+$55 rake as you stated.

Also, you have to take into account that the field is much smaller than the Wynn and much softer. Ultimately, an experienced player can profit a whole lot better at TCH than at a casino.

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. Why would I want to be in a tournament where a higher percentage of the money goes to the rake rather than the prize pool? That makes no sense. One is getting charged $30 more for a smaller potential prize pool. From what I see the Texas Card House doesn't even advertise a minimum.

From what I recall, TCH's $100 buy-in tourny is a $10K GT, but, same here, I don't see the minimum prize pool. However, I'm comparing the two because they're both $10K GTs, TCH use to advertise that 2 weeks or so ago.

Sure, more "rake" is going to the house but the end amount spent is significantly different.

Going back to my example.

The Wynn Re-buy tournament
-Offers a $10K GT for $180 buy-in + $25 rake (Given that's not the true prize pool but we can use that as a minimum marker for comparison)
-There's no chair rental
-4% of the prize pool is withheld for dealers and service charge
-Grand total spent on tourny is $205

TCH $100 Re-buy tournament
-Let's say that their tourny is still a $10K GT as they advertised in the past
-Let's say that their tourny lasts 5 hours
-They charge an hourly rate of $10/hour + $2 check-in + tax (8.25%)
-Grand total is $156.29

The difference seen between the two is:
-You get into a $10K GT cheaply by comparison
-Softer field
-Smaller field
-Re-buys are cheaper by comparison
-Rake is roughly double the amount from the Wynn
-No comps
-No percentage of the prize pool is additionally withheld
-Saving you a grand total of $48.71 minus membership tier price

I can further my argument by comparing the two tournaments with a 100 entry field (0 re-entry for simplifying purposes) at their respective buy-in prices. Ultimately, you get 1.24 more tournament buy-ins for 1st place at TCH than the Wynn.

From my perspective, that seems to be a pretty reasonable trade-off for a lot more advantages. Also, living near the center of Texas makes a difference.

Last note, I don't like the fact that they're charging for chair rental for tournaments but looking at buy-in amounts at the end, it seems negligible.

The fees are $10/hr (tax included) + $2 check-in + Membership fee of either $10/day or $30/mo.

The TCH 10k has a rebuy period which lasts 4 hours. It takes ~3-4 hours to get to the money (final table) and another hour to finish.

You can late register which might save you a few hours of time, but the blinds are 600/1200 during the last level of the rebuy period with a 10k stack.

Just imagine bubbling this though and paying $80 in fees for a $100 tournament. Long term, I do not think anyone can beat these fees.