Looooooool no way this is real

I wish I was joking but it's true. Amazingly some players didn't see the issue with it when I asked the dealer 2 hours in.

Other absurd things I noticed about the fees at TX card house:

They had a 10 minute break after 5 levels but kept the hourly seat charge clock running. So everyone on break was charged to take a piss or have a smoke.

The tournament didn't start on time but the charges did.

It was a rebuy tournament for the first 8 levels which lasted 3.5 hours! So 60 people all paid about $45 in fees just to get through the rebuy period. Only the top 10 players got paid, which I expect took another 2-3 hours to get down to. I would estimate the last 60 players paid another $30 each in fees on average.

My guess is they rake about $7000 in fees from this tournament. The prize pool was roughly $14,000 with about 75 unique players.

Anyone want to start a card room in Austin and not completely rip people off?

Sounds like someone needs to talk to their elected officials about this illegal gambling operation running down in Austin. I'm actually shocked the Chickasaws haven't gotten involved yet...especially with one of these operations being opened in their own backyard in Plano.

That's so insane. The private games in North Dallas are the nuts. Sure, the rake is a little high but imo it's justified because they have to rent buildings/condos, chef, bartenders, massage girls and security.
They're very safe and the games are ridiculously juicy.

There is a big risk to pulling strings to induce a raid to try and get a place like this shut down. If a prosecution is brought and a jury acquits it's open season until they get the law changed which they might not even be able to do. If they were really cared their best approach would be to close the legal defense in the law before a prosecution is brought. This will be difficult because a) The legislature probably doesn't want to criminalize actual private home games (which are legal right now) and b) the Texas' legislature only meets every 2 years and it takes a lot of juice to move a bill through. The impact these rooms have on a place like Winstar or Choctaw are almost certainly negligible as I'm sure they run their poker rooms as a customer acquisition source rather than a profit center.

So is the room in Plano, except it's way cheaper rake.

Illegal? The city would apparently disagree. They have run openly for over three years now including including local TV news coverage and various articles written about them.

The fees to play a $100 tourney may be figuratively criminal, but that's a different story.

Got a chance to play at tch the other day, was great to meet some people there! Boston mike was adorable! Everyome else seemed boring who is everyone?

That room is nothing like some of the well established rooms here.

I know a poker player that lost $100k last month at Winstar playing blackjack. If he were to play poker somewhere else he's not gonna go to Winstar to play blackjack. You are probably right though because these rooms only provide low stakes games. Still long term think they'd be wise to take this more seriously.


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Politics has been a driving force behind keeping gaming out of Texas. Politics is also what has allowed this room to continue to run illegally under the guise of being legal. Texas Card House is receiving economic benefit from a gambling operation which is illegal in the state of Texas. That really can't be denied. There's a reason these haven't popped up like crazy all over the state...Because it's plain as day that this is illegal. Most people don't have the government connections that the owner of Texas Card House has though.

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[QUOTE=Dream Crusher;51797552]HARRAHS AND INDIAN GAMING has been a driving force behind keeping gaming out of Texas. THE LAW is also what has allowed this room to continue to run LEGALLY under the guise of being legal. Texas Card House is receiving economic benefit from a gambling operation which is illegal in the state of Texas. That really can't be denied. There's a reason these haven't popped up like crazy all over the state...Because it's plain as day that this is illegal. Most people don't have the government connections that the owner of Texas Card House has though.

FYP.

Also, a side note, is it illegal for members of a private country club to play gin? Or poker for that matter? Members are paying a monthly membership to use the clubhouse and other club facilities. Playing cards in that facility is not illegal sir.

Does the country club charge me $10/hr for sitting at the table to play poker?

But it's clearly not "plain as day" and it can be denied or as I said, the room would not have run openly without issue for three years. You are insinuating the owner has some special sway with local officials and law enforcement - he does not.

The Texas statute only says that it's an affirmative defense if:

"... no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings"

This is vague as hell, especially within the context of the overall statute. Texas Card House and establishments like it will argue that they are a business which provides

- A place to play games (any games that members want)
- Professional dealers to run games
- Security
- Other misc amenities

The membership and "chair rental" fees pay for these benefits. No economic benefit is derived directly from the game, it is indirect, because they could (theoretically) run the exact same business model with [insert competitive game].

As I've said in previous posts - it's not crystal clear either way. The Texas law is vague. If the state decides it wants to challenge it, it will probably go to court and it will ultimately be up to a judge to interpret.

The membership model was vague and a close question. Hourly fees that I pay for a seat in the poker game, yeah, not so much.

Maybe to you, but legally not so much. A business can use pretty much whatever model it wants to charge for its services. You have to think about what the defense would be here should it be tested in court.

TCH would argue that their "hourly chair rental fee" is structured as-such because they have more members who want to play in "dealer-run (poker)" games than they have seats available. And they have to compensate their dealers - as such, they have to charge some premium for anyone who wants to sit in a dealer-run game. This is a reasonable defense. Not saying they would ultimately win - but it's not a slam dunk for the state at all.

If Texas really wants to shut this type of operation down it would be a better use of their time to rewrite the statute to be crystal clear when it comes to poker rooms and private games.

Dude, yes, it is a slam-dunk. "People pay us for the privilege of sitting in our poker games, which are explicitly gambling under the statute. That is the only service we offer. We derive economic benefit by hosting poker games, which are gambling."

Again, a membership argument can be made. I have heard people say that free bar games violate the statute because the bar sells more food/drink than they would without the poker, and thus economic benefit. I don't like that argument either.

But here, literally I pay them directly for nothing but the privilege of sitting at a poker table. The more poker I play, the more I pay.

So if it's such a slam dunk why are they still open after three years? After TV news coverage proclaiming that they are "A legal poker room in Texas?" After various articles written about them and their model?

I mean, if it's so obvious, the city would just roll up and chain the doors right?

Just because it's a slam dunk in your mind doesn't mean it's a slam dunk as far as the law is concerned. Would they win in a court battle? Who knows. But there would be a court battle - there is a case to be made.

People break the law every day and don't get arrested for it. Doesn't mean it isn't illegal. Maybe they have a handshake agreement. Maybe they grease palms. Maybe LE has better things to do. Who knows? If it goes to court I will be happy to bet big dollars on how it comes out.

There have been private clubs offering poker for years to it's members but none of them ever advertised the games as legal because they didn't (and still don't) want to draw attention to a game that is illegal to run in the state of TX.

Oh yeah, sure. He left a job with the Licensing & Administrative Procedures Committee for the State of TX to open a Card room and he doesn't have any sway with the Licensing and Administrative Procedures Committee which oversees gaming in the state of Texas. LoL, who are you, his PR guy?

It's really not. They are profiting from a gambling operation. In fact, it appears they charge the highest rake in the world on tournaments so they are probably rolling in the dough.

Given your argument, I suppose they could offer HU baccarat or blackjack, only receiving an hourly rate for renting the space. Hell they could rent space out to slot machines too. The slot machines could be made to give the players even odds and the owners of the card house would never see a dime of the money from the slot machines but they would make $X/hr per slot machine.


Sorry, you can't just restructure the way the gambling operation gets paid and say it's anything other than an illegal gaming operation. Everyone knows this is illegal.

This is downright false though. You can't play any games at Texas Card House. You can only play the games Texas Card House offers.

https://www.texascardhouse.com/

Have any games other than real money poker run at Texas Card House? I'm sure that 99%+ of all the rentals have been for poker (Cash/tournament/SNGs) for real money. LoL @ them trying to take the position that they are just renting seats for people to play whatever they want lol.

I am not a PR guy for TCH although I probably sound like it

In truth - I know more than the average bear about this because I was extremely close to opening a competing venture in Austin. I consulted with a lot of attorneys and did a lot of homework. In the end, it wasn't legal worries that kept me from opening - it was that I got tired of being turned down for commercial leases (it's an owners market in Austin so lessors can be picky), so I decided to put the capital into simpler ventures.

FYI, Texas Card Room had explicitly marketed itself as "Legal Poker in Texas" until a very recent site redesign which has apparently removed that wording. Now it just says "Texas Card House works with state and local government officials in Texas to offer a place to play Texas Hold ‘Em and other poker games."

So if I pay a girl $200 for 30 minutes of her time and during that time we just happen to decide to have sex, do you think that will work as a defense to prostitution or nah?

So to use your analogy I guess that a "membership" card house would be an Escort Agency...

...which, guess what? Is legal.

It's legal to rent out rooms for people to have sex with women (ie $200 for 30 minutes)? I'm not really following you there. Please explain because if true I would open Texas Sex Houses all over the state.

They are called hotels.