Say what you want, no one says you need to agree with anyone or vise versa, I’m allowed to my opinion and your entitled to yours, your views have been very consistent so your responses aren’t surprising

I don't think anyone misunderstands that if Lee was not spokesman for stars that there would be all same changes what was done because it is big greedy corporation. Just some other dude would deliver corporation decisions to players.

Is there real difference in why people hate on Negreanu and why people hate on Lee? (Obviously different incidents but they both just messed up communication trying defend some stars decision).

Do Vicky Coren-Mitchell or anyone who left stars during SNE scandal, other pros who left over years explaining why they left have higher integrity then Lee? (Or it is different because he is not team pro but just someone who goes to interviews and defend stars decisions elsewhere.)

I don't have answers to theses questions just seem pretty similar to being stars team pro and sticking with them for very long time defending anything they does while others have left for different reasons not wanting be face of room and associating themselves with big corporation low-integrity decisions towards players.
I mean you stay with company over many years defending any decision what is in interests of big greedy corporation and decisions what try make net-winning players to leave room and then you are surprised when people start associate you with someone who might be believing theses decisions being good for all players. (Even when obv not Lee decisions).

Yeah, that's going great. Turns out, there's a middle to your two extremes where you care for your customers AND your bottom line.

What does their current share price have anything to do with what's being discussed?

I could see where you were coming from on some of the points you made ITT, but now it's kinda gone off the rails. There is no shame in criticizing someone for behaving dishonorably, even if it's their job to do so.

Clearly he is your close friend and I'm genuinely sorry that this is upsetting you. But he surely knew what he was getting into when he accepted this role. If you're going to be the lying mouthpiece for a rotten company, this comes with the territory, there is no having it both ways. You take your lumps and cash that check.

Would be nice if that stuff could stay out of the thread. Everyone at least halfway reasonable agrees that poker platforms aren’t responsible for providing players the possibility to play for a living. And Lee Jones certainly has nothing to do with that.

I agree but I never said lee had anything to do with any of that. I was simply only responding to Lou on how other then sne ps screwed over players

You can cherry pick lots of responses to questions from other posters and say they don’t belong in those threads

I wasn't upset with Lee personally for Stars' decisions, but he's the key communicator of these changes and he wouldn't answer basic questions/criticism. He may have been under orders not to do so but it'd be the same as calling Sarah Sanders blameless when refusing to answer questions from CNN

Google Peter Principle people and then you will have you answer. Kidding Lee,


I asked Lee to come in to this thread and he hasn't yet. Pity. We will protect him from idiotic trolls.... so Lee, what's up?


and ftr, my bias: i have always liked Lee.

Hi Everyone:

Normally in these type of threads I try to stay out of them, but because of the negativity in this thread thought it would be appropriate to make a comment.

I think that Jones probably did a much better job than many of you are giving him credit for. It's not fair to look at one or two specific things which we all consider negative and blame all of that on Jones when in fact he may have had very little to do with these decisions.

While we in 2+2 management did not ever deal directly with him when it came to his position at PokerStars, we heard a lot of positive things about him and the effort he made to get problems solved when specific players had specific problems. So to be fair, I think this side of his performance with whoever he was currently working for (and he didn't always work at PokerStars) needs to be considered and many of you are leaving this out.

Best wishes,
Mason

I think if you will read the thread back you will see some recognition for his poker book and some people genuinely know what a tough job he had.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I personally have npthing against lee jones the man. I wasnt keen on him when he had the role he was given during his time in the company but can relate to how hard it was. Personally i would respect anyone like coren or ike who left when stars business plan changed over someone who continued getting paid by them. Not to say staying with stars was evil or anything but when the company changes its ideas i respect those more who decided to leave than stay and "shill for a company" just for a paycheck

Gl lee jones in your future endeavours.

All the best . Jamie bury

who cares about their stock, when their owners are selling and buying their own company shares at right timing, to make themselves more money.

They (certain individuals) are most likely happy it goes down, fits their bottom line very well.

What happened once, sure thing wont happen in the future (aka now)... pathetic.

I met Lee some years back and he was nothing but a gentleman, and you can tell how honest and authentic his enthusiasm is about poker. He truly loves the game.

I don't think it's fair to judge his character based on his role at a company that many disagree with.

?

New to 2+2? Clearly everyone speaking against Lee in this thread has much higher moral and ethical standards, which is of course expected from all poker players. I'm sure not one single person who has spoken negatively has ever behaved in a dubious moral or ethical manner.

-BD

Sweet, thread was definitely missing some whataboutism

Love me some whataboutism. Here is my contribution.

Hypothetically, if some game type was still profitable for some Regs on stars, even after all the other stuff Stars did to ruin the rest of the games, and even after the SNE theft, the number of these Regs that would have quit out of protest over ethics of Stars is near enough zero to just call it zero.

Everyone was in it for the money, their money. Nobody was in it for virtue.

I dont know much about Lee in general, but when he was with Cake Poker they were trying to **** me over on their gc500 once and I was getting nowhere with cake support. I messaged him (I think here on 2p2, but it's been years and I dont remember all details) and he got it all resolved for me in like 48 hours.

I met him in person once too sometime later and he seemed like a solid dude then too.

Lou

It’s like someone you trust ****s you over, then lies about it after to make it seem ok

I get that and agree, but not the point I was trying to make.

If the game you played on Stars at the time, was for some reason something you could still play profitably , would you have quit playing on Stars out of protest to support all the others that whose games Stars destroyed and the SNEs that they stole from?

Be honest.

If the answer is no, as I suspect it would be for all regs at the time, then why ask others (i.e. Lee) to do what they were likely not willing to do themselves (quit making money from Stars out of protest from BazzovaStars' decisions to eff up the game).

Seems like a double standard.

Spent a fair bit of time working and playing with Lee. There are no criteria on which he cannot be judged one of the good guys. Boundless enthusiasm. Love of the game. Willing to help anyone, anytime. I hope someday to be within hanging out distance of him again. The end.

Why doesn't Lee come here and apologize for his sins? Then we can all hug and get on with it.

Hi folks -

Yes, I left PokerStars at the end of 2018. It was an amicable parting after an absurdly long and joyous run. I am still working on poker projects - you'll be hearing more about those in the near future.

Regarding the Supernova Elite (SNE) mess in 2015, I can say this now:

I had zero input into the decision. It was made well above my pay grade by a handful of senior executives. After the decision was announced internally, I was one of many people within the company who thought it was a bad idea. But that ship had sailed and we weren't going to change the outcome.

As a spokesman for the company, I had two choices:

1. Deliver the company message, as I was told, or
2. Quit.

As others in this thread have pointed out, this is the bargain that you strike when you accept a paycheck from a company, particularly as a spokesman for the company. You cannot have a public personal opinion on matters about which the company has a public opinion; your public opinion and the company's opinion are identical.

Quitting PokerStars seemed counter-productive; I believed then (and continue to believe) that PokerStars is good for poker. It has been the single-handed leader in the effort to combat Sheldon Adelson and return regulated online poker to the U.S. I think most would agree that PokerStars has the best software, game selection, security, and financial stability (e.g. Black Friday). In my mind, the mistake of the SNE decision did not outweigh the good the company was doing, and, of course, the value to me of continued employment.

I was proud to work for PokerStars and honored to share the journey with amazing colleagues. I am blessed to have had a long association with the company and its people. As to my own actions over those 15 years, I certainly made some missteps and uttered the occasional nonsense. C’est la vie. However, for as long as I’ve been around the poker world (over 30 years now) I’ve done my best to make the game better and more fun for the people who play it.

I felt the 2015 SNE decision was a poor one at the time, and still do. My then-manager (and now Director of Poker Marketing at PokerStars), Eric Hollreiser, subsequently referred to it as "a series of massive f***-ups". But every company, every human, makes mistakes. Any of us who ended our relationship with every company or person who made a mistake would be a lonely hermit. So I’m comfortable with the decision I made to stick around.

Thank you to everybody who has made this ride amazing so far. I can’t wait to see where it goes next.

Regards, Lee

You can't be serious Lee. "Sure, let's **** over the rest of the world for the meek prospect of some time in the next 50 years successfully defeating the oligarchy in the US and bring splintered online poker back."

Amaya is and always has been a locust company! They buy companies in financial or legal distress, drain them for their value and later assets and then sell the skeleton for a total profit. I am sure someone in your position has researched what they have done with OnGame before.

With that information and your expertise, saying AmayaStars continues to be good for poker is either intentionally misleading or very, very misguided.

I hope you understand that many people feel you should have the insight, introspection and integrity to quit.

I have had conversations with you and I know you're a nice person, but that's hard to forgive.

Great reply, sir.

Don't listen to the haters, you are a great ambassador for the game. Thank you.