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LATB million dollar cash game rail thread LATB million dollar cash game rail thread

12-15-2018 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
the misconception that fishes like toupee and ptlou seem to have about GTO is they think that GTO plays every hand the same way but it couldnt be further from the truth
while I agree with you I am fish, I disagree with your characterization of what I know about GTO.

But, lets not degrade into the tired and boring debate about exploitative vs GTO in live play.

The truth is the very best live players understand and utilize both, so ya piss off.

Last edited by PTLou; 12-15-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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12-15-2018 , 10:48 AM
Judging from the posts in this thread. Poker is alive and well
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12-15-2018 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
You are right that I don't know anything about GTO other than I believe the full name is Game Theory Optimal. Correct me if I'm wrong please. I will admit that I'm what you might call an "old school" poker player. I started out playing in Dayton, Ohio when I was 13 and have continued to play and enjoy poker for sixty years now. I've never been a "professional" poker player, making my living in other ways. I have supplemented my income from poker, mostly playing in the middle limit games and a few tournaments a year.

I admit that I don't know all the jargon that the current players tend to use when describing their play, but to me Poker is not rocket science. It is a relatively simple game compared to many other endeavors. Position, stack size, hand values and percentages are all key to how you play (or don't play) a hand. The final part of the equation is how well you can "read" your opposition and that's the hard part. If you have a good comprehension of the above things, and you can keep your composure at the table then you have a good chance to be a winning player.

This last thing may be the most important. I doubt there is more than 5% difference in ability among most professional and even semi-pro players. I suspect that the players who have the best self control and self discipline are the winning players overall. I often said that if you can't handle bad beats then you will never be a winning player at Limit Hold'em. This may be true for NL as well. I do know from experience that you will probably take at least one bad beat per hour playing Limit, and you can overcome that if you keep your cool and don't allow it to affect your play.

Good luck and stay humble.
You're right poker is actually more complex then rocket science
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12-15-2018 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
I may not have a clue but I know damn well I would have won that pot! This guy Garrett has no prayer playing against the top players. They would eat him alive.
True, you could've just shoved preflop, Berkey would snap-fold and you'd win the pot - Easy!

Love it when NVG talks down on people who have been playing (and winning) at high stakes forever

edit: You're right that he would have no chance against the top players though. Neither would ANYONE ELSE AT THAT ENTIRE TABLE LOL. I mean, maybe Art can lose less than 5bb/100 or something against a tough stars lineup? I dunno. Saying that the top players would eat someone alive says nothing. The top players eat everyone who's not a top player.

"Like, lol at that guy, if he played TT Linus Otb Limitless and NLZ he'd get soo destroyed"

Last edited by Loctus; 12-15-2018 at 10:58 AM.
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12-15-2018 , 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BeHumble!
You live in a dream world.

This is uncalled for.

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Originally Posted by BeHumble!
Ahh you are one of those anti gto idiots...
fair enough.

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Originally Posted by BeHumble!
Ok... you are just saying things that are not true now.
Totally undeserved.
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12-15-2018 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
the misconception that fishes like toupee and ptlou seem to have about GTO is they think that GTO plays every hand the same way but it couldnt be further from the truth
Thank you! I like being perceived as a fish when I sit down in a game. Usually most of the players know each other but they don't know me, and I like it just that way.

Xeno, I don't know anything about you, other than what you write on here. But I've done pretty well for myself, probably a lot better than many non fishes have.
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12-15-2018 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
True, you could've just shoved preflop, Berkey would snap-fold and you'd win the pot - Easy!

Love it when NVG talks down on people who have been playing (and winning) at high stakes forever
Sorry I'm not familiar with NVG, whatever that is. I would probably check raise the flop, but thanks for asking.
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12-15-2018 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
You're right poker is actually more complex then rocket science
Now, that's really a joke. If you really believe this then you need to do a little more reading and spend less time at the poker table. Your lack of intelligence is on display here.
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12-15-2018 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
Sorry I'm not familiar with NVG, whatever that is. I would probably check raise the flop, but thanks for asking.
Decent choice, you'd get called by AK+ and fold out everything else so you'd be real sure where you were at after the c/r at least
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12-15-2018 , 11:03 AM
Did I really just have to scroll over 30ish posts about a hand that gman played pretty standard?

Saying that you would have won the pot by playing it differently has to be a troll? I mean folding AA preflop to an all-in is the most profitable play 20% of the time if you know how the board runs out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
Sorry I'm not familiar with NVG, whatever that is. I would probably check raise the flop, but thanks for asking.
C/r against the overbet is a terrible play. You can’t be serious?
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12-15-2018 , 11:05 AM
what about when you run into ATs, AK, A4s, or TT you make sure you lose your entire stack toupee?
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12-15-2018 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
Decent choice, you'd get called by AK+ and fold out everything else so you'd be real sure where you were at after the c/r at least
Works for me!
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12-15-2018 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
Your first mistake is saying that playing GTO is perfect! There is no perfect or standard way to play poker. Every situation is different and every hand plays out differently depending on what you do and who your opponent(s) are. You can play out all the poker simulations you want on a computer, but I have news for you. The computer you've been carrying around in your head all your life still works better!

I've watched a lot of high stakes poker games online and on television and some of the best play has been very unorthodox and certainly not what GTO would tell you to do. The bottom line is that the very best players mix it up a lot and you don't know where they are or what they have.

Garrett gave that pot away with his passive play and any other explanation doesn't fly here. I've got more bad news for you too. The more time you spend depending on a computer to think for you the weaker your own brain becomes. Our brains need stimulation and allowing a computer to do our thinking stifles that. I don't play much poker anymore but when I see a table full of guys with their heads buried in their cell phones I know these guys are not growing as poker players. More poker 101 - you learn more in the hands you don't play then in the ones you do! The best players are paying attention to every hand and how it plays out.
No
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12-15-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
what about when you run into ATs, AK, A4s, or TT you make sure you lose your entire stack toupee?
I'd rather find out on the flop where I'm at then on the river. Garrett went way too deep on this hand without ever making a move imo. And it cost him!

Different strokes for different folks I guess. It's Garrett's money and he can play it any way he wants, and I'll play my money the way I think is best.
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12-15-2018 , 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DrChesspain
No
How long did it take you to come up with this well thought out response?
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12-15-2018 , 11:15 AM
so if you raise and get called, where are you at mate, enlighten me
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12-15-2018 , 11:16 AM
strat in NVG is dumb. your are discussing strat in NVG. thus you are dumb.
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12-15-2018 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
so if you raise and get called, where are you at mate, enlighten me
Now ain't that the beauty of poker! He could have a weaker Ace or even trip tens. I'd still bet the turn and see what happens. How would you have played the hand? Would you have checked it all the way to the river?
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12-15-2018 , 11:26 AM
Toupee you're the reason Los Angeles live games are the softest in the world. You guys are all mouth breathers that don't understand fundamentals. I loled when you said poker was a simple game, you have no clue whats going on.
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12-15-2018 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
Now ain't that the beauty of poker! He could have a weaker Ace or even trip tens. I'd still bet the turn and see what happens. How would you have played the hand? Would you have checked it all the way to the river?
Trips tens = a set of Tens? Jesus christ what is this 2003
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12-15-2018 , 11:33 AM
Keep those cards and letters coming kids!
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12-15-2018 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toupee Jay
Now ain't that the beauty of poker! He could have a weaker Ace or even trip tens. I'd still bet the turn and see what happens. How would you have played the hand? Would you have checked it all the way to the river?
so how do you know your line yields a higher EV than garret's line?
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12-15-2018 , 01:34 PM
Toupee does have a point when saying xr the flop wins money, i mean that play def is +ev on this exact situation.
Furthermore isnīt it just about the same the guys trying to prove Toupee is wrong and the guys on a poker table telling a recreational how there are other ways to profitably play a hand?
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12-15-2018 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vherreral
Toupee does have a point when saying xr the flop wins money, i mean that play def is +ev on this exact situation.
Furthermore isnīt it just about the same the guys trying to prove Toupee is wrong and the guys on a poker table telling a recreational how there are other ways to profitably play a hand?
We on a poker educational site debating theory (although a really bad case of it) not shaming recs in their leisure time.
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12-15-2018 , 01:43 PM
obviously check raising makes money, it just make a little bit less money than calling, I still think we should occasionally check raise but if you check raise this 100% of the time you are leaving money on the table
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