Sorry this happened to you.

I can't imagine being in a game where you have time banks and can see a clock that shows exactly how much time has gone by and somehow it doesn't matter if the dealer gets it wrong about time banks used on an earlier street. Which in this case is arguable anyway.

The chat with the person where she repeatedly doesn't understand how time banks work is also preposterous.

I also think it is horrifying that a group of players at the table started discussing this in German.

My take away from all of this is to not get involved in high stakes "private" games in foreign countries. Which is good to know since my wife wants to work in foreign countries and I was planning to go with her and play. I will stick mostly to tournaments (assuming there are any).

I have a few bad foreign experiences already though none for the kind of stakes we are talking about here. About 15 years ago in Aruba I encountered a couple who I ended up thinking were cheating at 20/40 LHE. They pretended to be drunk and then always ended up sitting next to each other. I don't know if they were trading cards, or letting each other know through under the table touches about their hands but they always managed to do much better after moving. After about 3 times I quit the game whenever they showed up. The other thing that was crazy was that they had started talking with the owner about going into business with him. By the end of my time there the owner confided in me that he had lost faith in them as well...

About 10 years ago in Punta Cana I went to a casino to play either LHE or NL. In order to get there we traveled in a jeep that passed the gate of the hotel with an armed guard. And then once there, there was no game. But the casino staff offered to get me a local who would play me heads up. I declined, as if I had just been curious. But I suspected that whether I won or lost I was going home with no money.

As in OP's experience, what I learned was that once I feel uncomfortable playing in a game, I just don't play in it. To lose 23k Euros though is a very steep price to pay to learn that.

Given what happened here I think in the future I would make my decisions much quicker. Coming from LHE I rarely take a lot of time anyway but after reading this and seeing the video I definitely won't be coming close to using up my time banks. Even in a tourney. If it ever comes up.

I still don’t understand how the dealer could give a countdown that’s not binding.

If you are referring to when someone says 'twenty more seconds' then seemingly that is another player who isn't in the hand and not the dealer. Although you can't really tell who says it from the video

Ya I think you’re right… for some reason I thought it was the dealer.

Although it is pretty egregious that the dealer allows this comment to go unchallenged, player acts accordingly and later a different count is used to declare the hand dead. If at that point he had been told 2 seconds I'm sure he would have snap called!

I would want 'my' Dealers to be more interactive in these spots, but I've observed over the years that European Dealers tend to be much more passive than their US counterparts.

I think we all feel something for the OP, but most any experienced poker player will know that it's a pretty tall task to find resolution in a spot like this one .. especially swimming in someone else's ocean.

I've lost track of all the comments, but as long as OP didn't have to pay off the all-in, then this is unfortunately an expensive lesson learned. GL

Mod note: this thread originated in Casino & Cardroom Poker and was moved to NVG.

You look embarassing drunk in this scene. They just waited for this spot, you could even write „victim“ on your forehead.

Not surprised such stuff is happening at King’s, it is a bit of a shady place and I also have seen some scams by pit/poker degens there myself.

You are technically correct I guess, but you will very likely not get your money back due to the stated reasons in the thread.

I also do not hear in the YouTube vid that people are arguing against you in German - they are more trying to figure out what happened and how much banks you used.

Floor favoured the (presumably) reg, dealer seemed totally clueless and you got the short end. I do not think there is a truly independent regulatory body that can help, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sorry that you caught up in this. Also I think this looks like a great game.

What's the story behind this?

hopefully kings gets some bad press for this, even if just a couple thousand guys remember it will hurt business.

https://www.pokertube.com/article/th...n-euro-welcher

For the Matt Kirk story google Matt Kirk Leon lawsuit

This is some pretty bad press for Kings, if you ask me.

It makes their games look like the wild west. I certainly won't be walking in there any time soon.

I think the most likely scenario is that the floor made a bad ruling in the moment, and once that moment passed you had a very tough (see: damn near impossible) hill to climb after-the-fact.

The player that bluffed and complained is a complete dbag, but it doesn’t really seem like the other players were involved with his hustle. But, I just saw the YouTube clip not the original, so maybe I missed some more context.

As another poster mentioned, your best bet at a just outcome was to raise holy hell right when it happened. Once that moment passed, the likelihood of you recovering anything dropped to almost zero.

Sorry that happened, OP. Your best bet at this time would be to convince content creators or other big names in the poker community to join the fight, but given Leon’s whale status I’m not sure too many of those guys wanna get on his **** list. Might be best to just move on.

pretty hard to know what was exactly said by the dealer during the hand, but i find it crazy that he doesn't take more control of the situation. You have other players 'trying' to give more info than the dealer. The player on OP's left appears to also put in one of his timebank chips too? Who hand is a cluster****. That said kings doesn't have a great reputation either...

Thank you for sharing OP. I'm sorry you got screwed but you made a good deed by sharing it. I hope at least few foreign players wouldn't go to this **** hole thanks to your post.

I went there once and knew it was a shady place first minute when they only accepted cash for a room rent and didn't give a receipt for the payment. It's EU after all, not Russia. Never seen that before.

Most of the regs were pissed that a small group of Nordics came to their juicy games. The recs were mostly nice but regs tried to shoot every angle in the book.

I would be especially cautious with Martin Kabrhel. He's Leon's hand puppet, plays with his money and angles a lot. Not a chance they would ever rule anything against him. People say they have a "special relationship" but I don't know anything about that.

lol the ruling and handling is so awful and the spirit of the shot clock isnt to fk ppl over when a dealer messes up / theres no clear display or warning of time left and they were like seconds longer than 'allowed'


what a mess

The video from page 1 is not working for me, anyone got a working video and a timestamp?

Wasn't there another story as well a few years ago about Leon playing someone heads up in a game while he was drunk, losing several hundred thousand and never paying the guy cause he said he took advantage of him loaning him money while he was drunk?

Here is the story of Leon vs Kirk where he was refusing to pay up.

https://www.thepokerpractice.com/pok...-2m-poker-debt

Post#66 in thread

Here you go. At 2:10m dealer announces bet of 7.900. Around 3:17m Nino announces call.

when on earth did "difficult floor ruling" come to mean "scandal"

thread title is silly

also thread belongs in cardroom not here, imo

It's not a difficult floor ruling, it's flat out wrong. Imo you would be very ok with the thread, if you were the affected player and out 34k.

Lol $10 million countersuit against the casino for overserving and Kirk for taking advantage. Its gotta be the only time a Nevada judge laughed a billionaire out of his courtroom. I wonder how many of those types of cases have been thrown out of the Clark County court. "I got really drunk and lost all my money, waaaaaaaaaaaaa"