Yesterday I played in a live-streamed 25/25 PLO game at kings casino in Rozvadov.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1149609761
Hand starting at 05:56:02 in the stream.

Here is what happend.
The game we were playing was a semi-private game in which you had to take shots for every 20 second time bank used. You were given 5 time banks in total.

On the flop I trow in 2 time banks and after the dealer trows me back one time bank I take the other one out of the pot.

I call the turn and on the river spot I tank put in all my time banks and after I ask how much time I have left and a player or the dealer (I forgot and it seems unclear by the video) states I have 20 seconds left and counts down and I call before the time runs out.

After I called the guy says my hand should be dead and the dealer and floor rule in his favor.

To me it seems like this is unfair given that the dealer did not state how much time is left and when I asked I clearly called within the time stated.

Do you guys think my hand should be dead and I lose the pot or should it not be?

Is there anything I can do? I talked with the floor today and they called a boss who was currently unvailble but said there is nothing the casino can do for me.

Earlier in the game like at 3:15:30 there were no time chips trown in the the pot (which should have been down in order to activate them as stated before in the game) and the hand was not killed.

All advise is welcome!

P.s. this was the biggest pot of my life and shots were taken please don't comment to much on my game

definitely seems unfair, he didn't protest until you called and he was bluffing.

Is the reason they say that your hand should be dead because you effectively used one of your time banks twice?

Unfair for sure.

Your opponent is a scumbag. I certainly don't understand a word anyone was saying but in any spirit of the game and just watching without understanding a word you should have won. It's a joke you didn't. Sounds like you might not even understand what was being said. With that said you're never gonna see that money. Shitty situation and a **** human being (your opponent).

kind of hard to follow what you're saying. how many time banks did you have before this hand started? you have to throw in one time bank after the first 20 seconds and then each 20 seconds thereafter, correct? the clock starts as soon as someone puts in a bet? you're given 5 time banks per hand or total for the entire session?

Seems unfair to not give you a proper countdown when your actual time was going to expire..

Also the dealer or someone not in the hand should be calling out the time bank issue as it happens not after a countdown and call.

5 time banks a hand.
They reset each hand after a shot a taken for each time bank

The rules are whatever the local casino says they are.

Having said that, I'm not really following what "shots" you're talking about, or how they relate to a time bank. Time banks are not generally included in major rulesets either, so it's not even like there's a standard to be applied. It does seem like you followed the rule as the dealer explained it, and that your opponent didn't complain until after you called, which are both reasons I would support your cause.

Unfortunately, the time to make a scene about the ruling was right when it happened, and before the next hand was dealt. You have to stop the game immediately. Call the floor. If you don't like his ruling, get the shift manager. If you don't like his ruling, call the poker room manager over (if he's available). At this point, you're basically out of options for immediate resolution.

After that, you can file a report with the relevant gaming authority. I don't know how this casino works, or if they even have a gaming authority, but if so you can file a report about it. If you're very, very, very lucky they may be able to do something for you, but in general they are not going to be able to get you paid, if they even rule in your favor, which is unlikely in most jurisdictions.

Good luck.

Alcohol probably.

If villain complains mid hand about time banks expiring it gives up the strength of his hand.

So while it may appear super scummy not to say it until after you lose I can kinda get behind why you wouldn’t want to complain.

I literally had it happen to me at the casino. I bluff. Asian man is tanking. His phone rings he answers talking Chinese. I’m like wtf to the dealer isn’t his hand dead? And he snap calls.

The timebank thing is quite hard to follow on the video as seems after you use two on the flop that the dealer returns them to you. Then as you are using them on the river the guy in the white shirt picks one up and throws it back towards your stack which then gets used again.

All this recycling of timebanks is wierd but dealer should be on top of it and you should absolutely get a fair count down.

As the hand plays out you do clearly call as count down of 10 seconds happens. After that they all kick off about the timebank issue in German. No way would they have done this if the other guy had won the pot.

I also assume that your hand was considered a fold and he didn't get all your chips. That would be even more egregious if it is ruled as a call and your hand then becomes dead. All in all a terrible situation as whatever happened with the timebanks should be considered a minor violation on your part (if using too many was even your fault at all as they keep getting returned to you) but not giving you the pot is totally against the spirit of the game

As a side note it seems the other players are kind of ganging up against you and saying what are you doing in this game, biggest pot of your life, to play you need balls and you don't have any balls, fist pumping each other.

Someone at the table even mentions that in Villain's defense.

This looks so complicated and confusing. Five (!) time banks per player, time bank cards being passed back to you for some reason, differing understandings of how much time you have, multiple players trying to settle on a ruling in a different language from one of the effected parties lol. And that's before you introduce shots of alcohol as a buy-back mechanism.

Is this generally considered a good or fun system?

What a mess!
Aren't there any regulations for controlling what kind of games can be played in this casino?

King's Casino is basically Rozvadov. Very small town right at the German border. Initially their customer base was almost exclusively German but that changed a little when it became Europe's largest card room.

The game in question is invitation-only (unless something changed recently) and they play by their own rules. Including stuff like having to drink shots.

Honestly, the only real way to determine if the ruling is fair or not would be to compare it with previous rulings in similar spots. Preferably including when the person negatively impacted by the ruling is one of the recreational players.

Was going to say you got boned but the other guy not bringing it up mid hand is a great point.

Depends if you are allowed to get back time banks for ones you put in the pot but don't *use* the time for or if you went over your total time bank total. If either are true ruling seems *fine*, though I'd tend to lean towards dealer/floor being official time keeper even if they are slightly wrong sometimes.

Also what madluck said

The dealer counting down is the smoking gun for me..

OP got hosed plain and simple. I’m fine w playing house rules but you need to warn people before you kill their hands.

The whole time bank thing is a cluster. The kid is clearly trying to clarify how much time he has the whole time it reminds me of the dude in office space not getting a slice of cake at the party.

https://youtu.be/ctOBMFznkto

I randomly watched this live at work lol. Looked like a good game.

I timed it and it took you 1:37 to make the river decision in a 1300bb pot.

On the flop the dealer actually gives you back both your time chips, not just one. He throws one to you then pushes the other one to you, and you take them.

At every point in the hand you threw in time chips ASAP and also asked how much time you had. Absolutely batshit insane that your hand is declared dead considering the above. King's casino is a joke.

Loctus makes a great point.. time shouldn’t start til the pot size or bet size is declared.

Also OP how much of a language barrier was here?

Do you speak German and does villain speak English?

Yeah for me bearly and German and for him not great English

thanks for elaborating.

the way i see it the dealer should be auto mucking your hand as soon as the time expires.

i would not play at this dump of a casino in the future.

if you made the call and the the guy had a flush you would most certainly be paying this bet.

extremely shady behavior that leads me to believe this is a frequent player at the casino who knows the floor who made the ruling.

absolutely disgusting.

I looked back at the clip again.

From my understanding the shot clock should start as soon as it is clear how much the bet is. The dealer announced the bet at 5:59:53 and I say call at 6:00:59 which makes it 1 min and 07 seconds. I would have to use my normal 20 seconds + 3 x 20 time banks in order to not have my hand timed out due to the shot clock rule. This means my hand should 100% not be dead or am I missing something?

You got hosed. Maybe you were thrown back some time chips improperly but it seems like them being returned during the hand is a thing. If they're going to be put back in the pot that would have to be done well before someone is running out of time.

Between the normal chaos of Omaha and everyone being drunk, the dealer really needs to be on top of the details and not let the mob run the game which seems to be happening here.

This is not the first report of shadiness coming from that place.

The guy speaking german to the dealer is a piece of ****. Speak a language everyone can understand or stfu and call the floor who can translate.

Another piece of **** is the guy who touches your time chips. They're not yours. Keep your grubby hands off of them. One player to a hand and all that.

Did the dealer give you a chip count for Vs stack? Was he counting down?

Also wtf is the point of throwing chips back and forth? If I want to buy 1 minute, I throw in 3 chips. Since they reset every hand, obviously you might as well throw in every single chip on the river.

I wouldn't wanna deal with such scum and stupidity unless it was a super juicy game.

Would you say the same thing if it was a card room in the US and one player spoke English to the dealer even though another player at the table doesn't understand English?