Hellmuth has 3 cashes so far in this year's WSOP.

Humberto Brenes has seven. That must mean Brenes is more than twice as good as Hellmuth... er, right?

He's a chark, bro. To be fair Hellmuth's ITM would be 99.9% in the seniors event.

Guess you guys missed this fwiw.

Another small field NLHE event.

By broadening his game, you mean "entering non NLHE" tournaments? He won three LHE bracelets against tiny fields back in the day, and he's won 1 non-holdem bracelet in 25 years of playing many events every year.

No, he still doesn't get limit poker very well. But he's a zen master at understanding the value of entering lots of tournaments.

Exactly. Phil started with a big lead on these guys and he's not willing to rest on it. Ivey didn't win his first bracelet until 11 years after Phil won his first. Daniel didn't win his first until 9 years after Phil did. Given the larger sizes of todays fields, Phil should lock up the most bracelets of all time if he wins even 2 more.

Another big advantage Phil had over his competitors is that he was never a good cash game player. During the WSOP good cash players like Ivey, Daniel, etc, are constantly balancing whether to play a tournament or a cash game. The biggest and best cash games of the year usually run during the series (3k/6k running most of the last week). A strong mix player who is properly rolled/backed would be foolish to pass up a good 1k/2k game to play a $1500 buyin tournament. Even a decent 200/400 would be more profitable.

Phil never has to make that trade-off because he's not a favorite in any high stakes cash game, so he has the option to play more tourneys than virtually any of his bracelet competitors. I wouldn't be surprised if he's played more than twice as many events as Ivey or Negreanu, given their later start and cash game focus, especially earlier in their careers.

Er...maybe he's as bad as the worst donk who's never won a bracelet. There is no way to know! Right?

Wish I were as bad a player as him.

I would guess people that get paid 25K to play in an event won't get paid 25K to appear in an event again if they nit it up. That may (or may not) have had some influence on what you experienced.

Seems to do pretty well at a variety of recent events. Other than NLHE, larger fields, etc.:
Recent Cashes
Date Event/Tournament Place Winnings

Jun 13, '14 $1,500 No-Limit Hold'em
2014 World Series of Poker 29 $9,877
Jun 07, '14 $3,000 No-Limit Hold'em Six Max
2014 World Series of Poker 8 $45,022
Jun 01, '14 $1,500 Seven Card Razz
2014 World Series of Poker 2 $74,848
Mar 05, '14 $2,140 Eight Game Mix
2014 L.A. Poker Classic (WPT) 4 $11,180
Oct 18, '13 Event 5 - No-Limit Hold'em (Nine Handed)
2013 World Series of Poker Europe 29 $5,747

Very simple. He plays every small tourney. Plays bad players. Never plays cash games in Bobby's room or any high limit anywhere. Plays in small cash games in California with regular or normal people don't know the difference and really believes he is the best player in the world. He has a Donald Trump ego and personality that turns statements around to make a average person think he is the best player in the world. He is a master manipulator and certainly does not make his money of poker. Went to his house once with another player. Could not believe that he lived in a crappy small house. Do not think it is by choice because he is certainly does not have a humble bone in his body. If he is in a restaurant and sees celebrities he will tweet he's having drinks with them or says they are his great friends. Mostly without pictures of course. Daniel was joking about "where are the pics" at the table one day. Phil did not like it. He is mostly smoke and mirrors. All real or top pros know this.

Thanks for the insight. Couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Are you a "real pro"or a "top pro"?

Any pics of you at his house?!?! What about chillin' at the table clowning him with your homie Negreanu? (I am not close enough buds to call him Daniel. Lol!)

Sincerely,

Average person.

[ ] online poker players are even 1/10th as good as they claim they are on message boards
[ ] your comments have anything to do with Phil Hellmuth's ranking amongst live players
[x] Hellmuth's sample size clearly is significant

Obviously, this post is the very height of credibility. How could we not trust the vague, unprovable claims of a random anonymous person online?

Too answer your question: I'm very close to this world. Mostly high stakes player more than tourney ones. Although, I did not notice my translation of the language. Lol

Maybe if Hellmuth bought a $6,000,000 house, hit a couple of negative fluctuations, lost the house, borrowed from everybody he could then stiffed them, he'd have a lot more credibility in the poker world. Well, at least here on NVG anyway. Well, at least with you. You know him, maybe you should bring this up to him.

Hm.

It doesn't, but okay

Do you have anything concrete to support this statement? Such as Desert Cat's (while anecdotal) criticism of Phil's mixed game ability from actually playing with/against Phil? This is pretty concrete, I don't know him, but he has been a member of 2p2 for 10 years and has 12k posts, indicative of a lot of interaction with a lot of poker players who are sharing substantial poker knowledge. I think it's fair to assert he's probably pretty good at poker, even in the absence of any other info. I think it's also fair to assert that players of this sort are the best thing we have concerning the evaluation of any other players skill at poker.

I somehow really doubt that you do, but I don't, however, doubt a really long winded and drawn out assumption of some sort.

He was paid to appear and play in a tourney, not to play cash games. The room couldn't care less if he played cash games, or if he played loose or tight in either the tourney or other games. It's possible he plays tighter if the stakes were higher & more meaningful, but his leaks weren't just hand selection IIRC.

But I must say they got their money's worth. He was extremely gregarious and outgoing, posed for a zillion pictures, he went out of his way to help publicize the event, even manning the mike for the final table for a while after he busted. Anyone thinking of hiring Phil for an event gets their monies worth and then some, I heard many, many, unsolicited comments about him at the event from happy poker players.

Again, I'm not qualified to criticize his NLHE play, even though I finished 276th/4,400 in a WSOP NL tourney this year (and played terrible doing it LOL). But you realize he probably played close to 30 WSOP events at Europe and so far this year, don't you (30 bracelets awarded this June already & 8 at WSOP Europe ).

Ah, the good ol', "because other players are bad, the player I support must be good" argument.

This thread would be an excellent learning tool for teaching about logical fallacies.

No, but, I'm sure flying to a dog track in Daytona for a 5k appearance is mainly the reason he can't get that mansion you are talking about he might lose one day.

Can't argue with that science!

Look up his analysis commentary both before there were hole cams and when it was delayed feed at the final table wsop main event in 2011. He impressed me. But then, I have not posted as much as you.

Just out of curiosity, where in that model that you whack-off to is the input for number of posts on internet forums? I think I missed it. Is it weighed more or less than bracelets?

Now go back to ignoring the points I have made until you feel brave enough to pop your head up with another hypocritical and transparent attempt to align yourself with another poster you don't know in an embarrassing, sycophantic display. I'm done with you until you answer the last reply I made to you with more than your tail between your legs. You began in here trying to bully those who disagree with you, and like every bully can't take it in return. It's too late to take the high road and be above it, pal.

I don't really understand what your theory is or where his supposed extra edge is coming from compared to other top pros. Is folding for 2bb 3-handed in a winner-take-all SNG part of this understanding of the complicated cEV/cσ²/$EV relationship or no?

How about if last time I said it someone you consider a superior intellect agreed with it?

Unbolded in the post you quoted:

D'oh!

If he lives in the same house in Palo Alto he lived in a decade or so ago, my guess is that tiny crappy house is worth significantly north of $1M. That's a prime, awesome location to live. Last time I was there I walked right by Steve Jobs house and it wasn't that impressive either.

Do you have a particular example in mind? In general, when you're down to a nanostack, folding is not always bad. You should be waiting for a situation where multiple people put in their chips, but one other player blows them out, leaving you with a chance to 5x your chips while having to beat only one other player.

You should take some time and try to organize your thoughts a little before you post. You're basically incoherent.

FYP