Because it's a snipped of the whole blog, which is linked. If you're going to have such a strong opinion on something you should really try to be fully educated about it.

From the blog:
Earlier today, I noticed this statement posted by you on TwoPlusTwo.com, which says, “The Sunday Million 9th Anniversary tournament has been moved to Sunday, 15 March. The reason for the change is to avoid conflict with International Women’s Day on 8 March.”

And I think that you think because you may have a rational perspective on women, that there is no need for businesses to alter their marketing to compensate for the entrenched misogyny in their market.

I think I need to be clear about something. I am trying to make 2 main points here:

1) The poker world has issues with women, that aren't good. I think with all boys clubs there tends to be these issues (gamers, professional sports etc), and it's possible that poker is not nearly as bad as the others. I don't have a solution to this, I am just trying to make it clear that it exists, that it hurts poker as an industry, and it is often cruel to women. It is also just plain wrong and barbaric.

2) Ladies events are good for the game, and sites/ casinos ought to promote them as a form of marketing. I am not saying that this is a solution, or reparations for the issues above. I am saying that given the current atmosphere for women in poker, it's hard to get them into the poker room. A ladies event is a nice transition, and will help to bring in new players. In an ideal world, we would not need ladies events. We do not live in that ideal world though.

You know I've been treated like **** before at tables too. What do I get to blame? I mean I can't just say that some individuals are *******s, I need to throw out a blanket statement and/or blame an entire group of people.

Ansky doing work ITT.

swd, perhaps people have treated you poorly at the table because of your general attitude and not your gender/race or any factor you have no control over?

When can I have the full list btw?

The thing is, women are not treated equally as things stand today. In fact, they are often treated with obvious disrespect and disdain.

Of course a women's only event creates fairness issues, but the thought is, it creates a less misogynistic environment to introduce women to the game, and may result in a slight increase to the overall percentage of women in the poker player pool. If there were more women in the player pool, it would inherently help limit some of the social adversity they face. If a room has an equal split of men and women, even the men with misogynistic tendencies will general act more appropriately than they would if the room was 98% men. The hope of a long term benefit, even if it is very slight benefit, is worth the short term detriment of the reverse gender discrimination argument on ladies only entries.

Please explain how any of what you just posted applies to the subject at hand?, like seriously plz explain. This topic is about online poker, i don't know or care if my opponent is a dog, a supernova 3year old or goku. I mean identities are hidden & almost nobody talks at a online table much less to somehow come off as misogynistic.

Def agree with Ansky and Katie ITT and her blog post.

PS moved it back so they could run more satties, no other reason.

You could actually argue that them moving it back to UK Mother's day was a worse decision, but, it still is pretty shady of them to outright lie as to why they moved the date.

I think them moving the date is fine, even if they had said the real reason as to why they did it.

Lieing about why they moved it tho...

1. People that point out that there are not "men only" tournaments are missing the fact that there is no demand for such a thing. If there was some incremental value to a casino to host such a thing over a regular tournament they would run one. The lack of such tournaments is a matter of economics, not social justice run amok.

2. To imply that denying women the right to only play with each other when they want to do that promotes equality makes no sense. They don't want to play alone because they're "getting back at you" or trying to balance the scales. They're doing it because a lot of women don't want to play what is supposed to be a social game with a bunch of anti-social grinders and bros.

3. The best reason that having online woman's tournaments makes sense, is once again, for pure economic reasons. Amaya could probably be could be doing more here if only to have a strong PS Women program ahead of a hopeful entry to the US market. This just seems like some pretty damn good advice from a user to a company. I would be surprised if Stars didn't respond positively to this. And you know, that whole community thing where people play together, that too.

The reason for 90% of the discussion being by men is because you're on an internet forum about poker. Bring up similar issues in a live ladies event and the discussion obviously becomes very different. Any conclusions drawn from either discussion are not any more inherently likely to be correct than ones drawn from the opposite discussion.

Just because this is the case (that the poker and internet populace is mostly men) does not mean that men made it the case by being misogynists and chasing off all of the women, as you are so foolishly implying.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything that you've posted here, so I don't understand how this is a rebuttal to anything I was saying

No they wouldn't. No chance at all.

Treating people equally isn't denying them rights. Since when is it a right to be able to play against only the people you want and have a different set of rules than other players? I'm sure most men would also rather not play against a bunch of anti-social grinders and bros.


@benji You can't really say that ladies event are just a temporary means to an end. They have been around for about as long as poker tournaments have afaik.

I don't really see the need or reason to have women-specific online poker tournaments. For live poker I totally see the reasons and support ladies events 100%. But for online poker, I just don't see the reason. In online poker, it's not like you're sitting around chatting it up like it's a social thing, generally speaking. And the reasons women may not want to play against men in a live setting are pretty much neutralized by the anonymity of online poker imho. Maybe that's why there's very little interest by women for women's only online events.

Oh and by the way Katie, International Women's Day is a very important holiday for Russia and Russian speaking countries that were formally the CIS/USSR. I mean it's a big deal. Since PokerStars traffic today is pretty much RussiaStars, I can see why they had to make the change, I don't think they would've made the guarantee if they didn't change the date.

So anytime a man is mistreated in poker it's because they had it coming. Ok.jpg

There used to be quite a bit of chat in the women's tournaments on PokerStars-- including others greeting women by their first names (as opposed to just their screen names) and just general chatter about fun things. At least in my experience, berating/insulting seems to be far less common in women's tournaments than in open tournaments (both online and live).

I think it's great that it is a big holiday there, but I still think that tournaments shouldn't be rescheduled with relatively short notice once they are announced-- especially not tournaments so big that people may plan trips to play them.

Actually, they're just wrong. There was a men only tournament at EPT Deauville. I think there have been men only tournaments online, though I'm having a hard time finding a record of one. No one has gotten upset about it because excluding one gender from a tiny fraction of the poker tournaments that happen every year is a stupid thing to get upset about.

I feel that this is a very poor assumption and simply a convenient device used by you to find support for your own beliefs.

I and probably others are agreeing with Ansky's posts because they are solid and make sense and not because we simply want women to feel nice.

Here's what grinds my gears about this issue.

Poker has tried for many years to make poker accessible and open to Women. Women's events, women's tournaments, women getting deals they wouldn't have gotten if they were a man.

How many women have entered poker because of this? A very small negligible amount. There is ZERO reason why poker should be catered to women.

I am getting really sick and tired of these women that feel "oppressed". Women don't play poker for the same reason they don't play video games. It's because it's not something they enjoy doing (for the most part).

If you are all as passionate about poker as you seem to be, you would do well to view this from a different point.

Not as fighting for equality, but think of it as catering to a new market.

Look at it this way.... not as womens events... if in 30 years we find out that rabbits have a capability to play poker. You would introduce rabbits to poker with "rabbits only" tournaments to get them more comfortable. I think some of you are hung up on gender and would do well to see this as a "new market" perspective.

Now.... I should also say... and I have been extremely open about this topic before.... I do not think ladies events are an accurate portrayal of the real life experience.... and such an expectation will lead to ultimate frustration and disappointment when they experience the real thing.

I also believe that in order to succeed in any sport/game you will learn better and faster in realtime environments with the best. Ladies events work miraculously as an introduction but not as long term plan for maximum growth.

I know that I built my foundation as a player by playing with the best (men or women) and built my character by also playing with the best. Most if not all of my early experiences were spent in aggressive, demeaning, hostile environments.... I can only speak for myself, but it made me more determined to learn more, be better and ultimately win all the dollars from those who underestimated and belittled me.

What I do know with absolute certainty is... Without those scumbags and bottom feeders.... I would have never become the player I am today.

It's really not a poor assumption at all. Admittedly, most of the posters on Ansky's side of the argument say that Women's events should exist because they draw women to they game. Do you really think they are saying this in the name of equality? Or maybe do you think they're doing this so women feel better about playing poker, play more and hopefully cause the game to proliferate?

Trying to make poker more accessible to females is a great thing that I have no problem with, don't get me wrong. You just can't act like you're doing it in the name of equality. You're doing it in the name of poker, and in most cases, money in your pocket.

itt misogynists and white knights alike. I guess I'll be the one to point this out, but the woman in this thread's sn is "hot jenny" and has a grindettes heart avatar. Not exactly subtle.

First, who is Katie Dozier?

What has she done in or with poker?

As is, this looks like a standard middle aged, self-righteous woman preaching about how women are treated sooooo bad. Standard liberal crap. That's both the beginning and end to it. Liberals will find absolutely anything to complain about and this "open letter" is proof of as much.

Also, to the post immediately above me-agreed. It's the typical "I want to be (more important than) equal...when it is both convenient and beneficial to me."

Will someone counter with an open letter about how women who are *terrible* at poker get more opportunities, sponsorship offers, and so on than their male counterparts?

Hopefully not, because that would be dumb, just like this open letter is.

What is your point?