I outline all of my thoughts in this video



Cliffnotes:

We do not owe him additional money in any form, I go through our financials to show his accusations are completely false

Show our contract and discuss contract violations

Address some of the most important points that were made in his video, but not all of them (It's a 1 hour video).

I will answer any questions I can within reason in this thread. I am fine answering any question pertaining to my knowledge of Fernando, his business dealings with Upswing, and clarification of any of his stories.

I will not answer questions regarding other areas of Upswing, my life, or off topic demands. In general I will do my best to answer everything within reason.

First in epic thread.

Just a suggestion but maybe someone independent should be lining up the facts?

Shouldn't this be retitled "Upswings side of of their dealings with JNandez"?

I didnt choose the other threads title, if thats what the mods want then sure that is fine with me.

However I do feel that my title should be slightly different, as many of the things Fernando says in his video are "possibly totally made up", whereas everything I talk about in my video is factual.

I dont think its entirely fair for an argument that is 1 guy saying he thinks he is owed 100k with no proof, and another person saying he does not owe him going through the numbers, to be titled in the same manner.

There's already a Polkspam thread and a recent thread about this. As a former mod you should know there's no need for a new thread.

Looks better for Google search results though, right?

No, because I dont want to post my story in a thread titled "Jnandezpoker tells his side of the story"

If a mod wants to put both of our stories into one thread thats fine.

So post in your containment thread then. It's there for a reason.

Why did a 'representative from upswing' request the mods change his thread title then, you could have responded in that thread with its previous title.

Also silly that without watching your vid yet you've already posted saying 'my video is factual, in his he says it could all be made up!' (when anyone who watched his video saw he was adding in silly terms in case there was any grounds for lawsuits over info he says, and he states he is doing this)

Why did you post this video as unlisted, seems hypocritical to go after jnandez saying clearly he knows he is wrong if he disabled ratings and comments but then you make your video private so only 2+2 essentially sees it.

anyways, not on either side will watch video unbiased and see your side of the story in a bit

-NVGdramafollower

If they want to change it thats fine with me, but I feel like that isn't fair because Fernando's thread is essentially attacking me with its title, but my response is buried under what is presumably a thread about my videos

This is a different topic in my mind, I don't understand why me trying to post my defense of a serious allegation doesnt constitute its own thread. (Again, 2+2 is welcome to see different and act accordingly)

We requested to change the thread title because the title is a baseless lie, wherein a video Fernando states "He thinks hes owed 100k but could be making it up"

We did not think that was a fair representation and asked 2+2 for a more accurate title.

Obviously its in your freedoms to request a title change but I mean I would bet someone who was not paying for advertisements on the forum/friends with the admin(s) would get a title change approved in that situation. The title even said allegedly scammed for 100k , not 'upswing scammed JN 100k!'. Seems like the opposite of what you would want to do in damage control since it just makes upswing come across worse in my eyes (and seemingly a good # of other posters from the other thread) lol

Sure, but meanwhile I have our financial records proving we do not owe him money and he is running this story to hurt us/Upswing as a business.

I'll leave it up to the mods man its not my battle to fight, they can decide if they want to go another direction with it.

Did you specify in the contract Ferando would have to absorb his pro rata share of any refunds and have that amount taken out of his future share of revenue? That may sound like it's obvious but unless it's in the contract you can't do that.

As a neutral observer, I really hope that nobody gets scorched as a result of all this stuff getting aired out so hastily and publicly like this. Lawyers love when there's a substantial pile of money to sustain their fees. I've seen some stuff that I wouldn't consider ironclad thus far.

Hopefully everyone can come to some sort of understanding that resolves the animosity.

My video is unlisted, because I want this to reach the people who have heard his side of the story and not mine. If I post it publicly, it will give him a bunch of exposure on my channel for a video where he tells a wide variety of misleading comments to downright lies.

He agreed to it multiple times because it was the right thing to do - and to do otherwise would be him stealing from customer who pre-paid for his content that he would no longer deliver

There is mutual agreement on this issue between him and us, and both of our lawyers are aware of it and have seen the supporting documentation of this agreement

Can we a get an Upswing Crapfest containment thread? There's 3 threads right now in NVG talking about the same exact thing.

Trying not to spam replies especially without listening to your video first but had to reply to this lol...

I have seen multiple reddit thread replies and 2+2 posts from you , as well as a page on upswing all talking negatively and telling your side of the story since the split to hurt jnandez reputation as a person / his business. (along with the alleged letter upswing sent him on skype when he wanted to leave saying you guys will ruin him if he leaves)

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right and in theory everyone flinging **** is in the wrong probably, but to not expect him to finally reply telling his side of the story and stating his understandings of what would maybe make you guys look bad would be naivé and to throw out the victim cards saying hes trying to hurt your business is kind of funny.

On top of that you have a much wider audience compared to him so you are constantly shouting to 100k+ people when you put your opinions out on his mistakes and how you have a lawsuit in the works , it's basically a one sided thrashing that has gone on for a year or however long since the plo lab split happened (topping it off with your vid the other day about JN scarf thread)

Doug & I will be podcasting tomorrow at 5 pm EST & will be talking more about this together as well.

This post should have its own thread otherwise it ends up getting lost on pages that people won't end up finding like the post I made in the JNandez thread.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...7&postcount=95

That's fine for him to share his side of the story, but can we agree there is a line on what we deem to be acceptable as a community?

Because to me, saying that its his opinion we owe him 100k, with out any evidence on why he thinks that, is too far.

It's fine if he wants to say what his thoughts were on a host of issues we've had. But I do not think making up "possible" debts is acceptable behavior.

This is without bringing up that he is specifically not allowed to discuss the inner workings of Upswing per our agreement.

That sounds like a verbal agreement to me rather than one codified in the contract. Most contracts have clauses that require any addendums or changes to be done in writing and agreed to by all parties - you'll definitely want to check with your attorney on whether your supporting documentation of that agreement with Fernando meets the criteria for a legal addendum to the original contract.

Fernando isn't even debating this point, he has agreed to pay the refunds.

Here's a yes or no question.

Did your site publish an article recently slandering Jnandez while you and Joey mocked him in the 2+2 thread comments?

https://upswingpoker.com/fernando-ha...t-limit-omaha/

Joey, please PM a link to the scarf website, will happily pay for your cheeseburgers tomorrow.

No, we did not post an article slandering Jnandez