Gotta like the Institute for Justice, they are on the right side of civil asset forfeiture litigation for sure .....

https://ij.org/support/give-now

I'll put my money up right now.....

In recent years the most I have ever traveled through an airport with a large amount of cash was $15,000. I had all 100's folded together with a rubber band and I forced it into my wallet(which wouldn't close all the way) and it went in the bucket through the xray machine. Walked through the detector and no TSA person noticed it I guess or said anything to me. I quickly grabbed my wallet and money and threw it in my backpack.

But I would probably not risk taking anymore that that. If you put like 10k packets in your carry on bag and it goes through the machine, the TSA person is trained to see that and that's when the bag gets flagged for more searching. But if you can stuff your wallet with the money for whatever reason it works.

Obv if you're trying to bring like 50k for the wsop you can't fit all of that in your wallet. So with the way these crooked police depts all over the country are seizing people's money, you are taking a big risk to put it in your carry on bag and let it go through the scanning machine.

You might try this alternative:

https://www.fbi.gov/history/artifact...rd-reids-shoes

or, realistically send a wire ahead, since your tourney winnings will be greater than your buy-in and will be reported by the WSOP.

Anyone know if the WSOP routinely reports large all cash buyins on a CTR report ?

If you think that post didn't add anything to the discussion you should really check some of yours out. You're like the talking head for tyranny.

How much of those asset forfeiture were criminal? Do you believe that criminals should be allowed to retain their ill gotten assets? So Madoff’s ex/widow gets to be a billionaire?

Frankly, IMO, civil forfeiture should be banned or at least any burden of proof should be totally on the govt and be to a reasonable doubt standard. But that doesn’t mean I am afraid to carry cash or drive a expensive car (if I owned one) or wear jewelry (though that applies more to my wife) or etc.

Yes the civil forfeiture standards need to be fixed. The concept of ‘yes you have rights but your money doesn’t and it is the money being detained’ is BS. Yes abuses happen and any are too many. But that doesn’t mean it happens all the time as some here portray. It is a man bites dog story.

If you agree that seizures should be banned absent some pre-seizure due process rights and some meeting of a burden of proof, you assume away the problem that exists today.

So, you think seizure of private property without any due process is a man bites dog story because, although you admit there are "too many abuses" .... because it doesn't happen "all the time" ?

I have to ask you if you understand the meaning of seizure. I happen to think any seizure without due process is unreasonable under the 4th Amendment. Cash is NOT some instrumentality of a crime, unless it is used in the commission of a crime. Just as the government cannot seize a firearm "just because", there is nothing criminal about possession of cash.

I really think we are in agreement, but any violation of due process that affects any individual is a violation of THAT individual's rights, regardless of whether it happens all the time or ever to some other person. That is the nature of an individual right.

Gzesh speaks the truth.


regarding Houston as I mentioned earlier in the thread . those clubs in Houston need to be shut down or regulated. City/County/State cant let them keep growing and look the other way . shits gonna get bigger. problems gonna get bigger

There is a reason why Casinos are regulated.

Yeah, so the government can tax the crap out of the casino and the customers.

Don't think for a second it's to protect the customers or the public.

You seem to be saying 2 different things
Obviously SOME cases of civil forfeiture involve criminal money
All of them are illegal as they don't involve due process

If the cops went around and just threw a bunch of suspected drug dealers and murderers in jail for life with no due process surely some would actually be murderers and drug dealers
That doesn't justify it

I also could be wrong but I don't think the cops just got to ransack the Madoffs and take all of their money without due process

All of their money was made illegally,and was rightfully taken away through due process.Thats completely different than some thug cops taking away cash on a traffic stop because they "think" you're a "drug dealer"

Conceptually you are correct. In reality, civil forfeiture is a real thing, both supported by established law and tested by case law. There have been successful challenges, but it remains an in-place way for The Man to squeeze people with nearly no actual justification.

See: Gina Fiore forfeiture case

You make my point for me. The vast majority of assets seized are either instruments of the crimes and or seized within due process. Those I suspect most don’t have issue with. Those are criminal forfeiture and they do have a due process.

Even civil forfeiture has a acceptable standard and a process. This is again the vast majority of civil forfeiture. Whether this process meets due process standards is its own debate. But to imply that most civil forfeitures are some rogue cop out willy nilly grabbing cash when he feels like it is a false narrative. That is the reason those are man bites dog stories. The fact they are far outside the norm is what makes them headline news. If they were common they would not be news.

That does not mean they are ok, not at all. But it does throw water on the idea this is likely to happen.

The clear implication (clear to me at least) of posting the chart was to show the govt was out of control and illegally or at least unjustly seeing more and more assets each year. Without the underlying data we can’t begin to comment on how much unjust seizure is happening.

Any unjust seizure is too much. But the reality remains this risk is much smaller than the risk of criminal theft. Those saying or implying otherwise are mistaken or lying.

Actually they can, they have, and they could continue to look the other way with zero ****s given.

Not knowing the complete facts of the DFW 'dog' case .. but where was she when the suitcase was 'found out'? If she was past security, then TSA allowed her to pass .. maybe with or without explanation. Or did TSA tip off airport police? (Very doubtful since they would want all the glory of the bust I would think)

If she was 'caught' curbside then it's just bad timing for her .. but do we really have 'cash sniffing' dogs? Perhaps they've trained them to be more than one trick ponies beyond 'drugs' or 'bombs'. GL

Thanks for the vouch, Lou, even a blind squirrel lawyer finds the occasional acorn of truth.

Regulation of Texas poker operations is likely coming.

The poker clubs in Houston that currently exist without violation of the current laws, if any, seem unlikely to be shut down, in the same way that non-conforming but legal gambling in Nevada is almost never shutdown when a new licensing requirement is added.

Per the previous post she was just on a layover. She didn't go through TSA in Dallas. Also, it was Love Field, not DFW.

Why is it likely to come and when? Next month? In 20 years?

Clubs have used the membership, hourly pay to avoid raking the pots. OK I can buy that.

But, TX (I believe) has language like most other states that says something to effect of "no person can receive any economic benefit from from an operating, organizing etc etc "

Certainly the club owners, floor, and dealers are receiving economic benefit. imo they are violating state law, irrespective of ever being prosecuted. Even if club owners claim they are Private club with darts and whatever, and that the members just decide to play poker... then OK.... but at a minimum the dealers are certainly directly involved in the operations of an illegal game, and are certainly receiving economic benefit ( and not from playing darts)

These rooms in TX are going to collapse under their own weight. As more and more open the pressure from a variety of anti-gambling groups will grow for prosecution/closure. If not then TX would soon look like CA Card Club market. Thats not just not gonna happen, thus they will all be closed at some point.

I dont see TX passing any laws authorizing any sort of gaming. People have been trying for decades. But you never know what is happening in the hallways in Austin between the state reps and their bosses aka the lobbyists, so for sure its possible.

Because I said so ?

(I am at times wrong, but never in doubt. As much as I would have liked to see that Federal Solution nonsense about online poker legislation fly back in the day, I took a lot of crap from all the folks predicting/funding/lobbying for its enactment for asserting gambling was never more than a State level matter.. I am of the view that the conditions, in Texas, are quite more favorable for eventual live poker regulation within its borders. )

I am not a Texas lawyer, but poker is a game of skill, all participants in the game have an equal chance of winning, and

"The law (the penal code ?) .... provides for some affirmative defenses to prosecution:

the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;
no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings; and
except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning were the same for all participants"

https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gambling

Again, I am NOT a Texas lawyer but, if that term "person" means a game operator, I expect a premises access charge, but no game rake or or play-based charge, has been a pretty powerful structural guideline..... ask a lawyer admitted to practice in Texas, my view is my view, not legal advice.

Dealer tips ?

Yeah, there was a case in another State brought under a federal law where a waitress getting tips was counted as 1 of the 5 people needed for jurisdiction, but that was an unwarranted stretch in my opinion.

The Texas legislature will next meet in 2023. They considered 2 gambling bills this year, neither of which passed and neither or which had anything to do with poker rooms. Sure, if Texas were to legalize casinos (ie 4 resort casinos) I'm sure they could slip in some verbiage to make poker rooms illegal but other than that I'm skeptical that they would address this at all. This is pretty small potatoes for the state of Texas.

These rooms seem to be running without issue throughout most of the state. Dallas Ft Worth residents haven't wanted them in their backyard, but thus far the lack of legislation hasn't stopped them from giving these rooms the boot whenever they deem necessary.

If there was any outrage whatsoever about these poker rooms and how they operate then it should be in Houston. However a quick Google search of Johnny Chan 88 Social tells me that this isn't even a news story outside of the poker world.

Update - 88 has been sold. It will reopen on December 27th at 101 - Richmond. The new owner signed a licensing agreement with 101-Katy to use the 101 name. They will run some joint tournaments but otherwise are operated independently. 101 Katy uses ping/rake but 101 Richmond will continue to charge by time/seat charge as 88 did.

what is ping rake?

I'm assuming any outstanding chips won't be covered by the new owners.

I kind of wonder how there's any value in 88 as a business for it to be worth buying.

As part of the agreement the new owner is honoring all the outstanding 88 chips. For the other question above - no ping. It will be hourly seat charge but I don’t know the rate.

So Chan is out, no involvement with this club at all now?