off topic but I still like that the extra n in the title makes the word look like it's 3 times as long

What has already been done with shuffle machines?

I’ll give an old one where the statute of limitations is up. A continuous shuffle machine was “borrowed” from Resort Casino in Atlantic City. A group of blackjack players met at someone’s house to take a look at the machine. The goal was to completely understand its inner workings. The main question asked was how long did it take for cards that came out on this hand to get shuffled back into the four decks (208 cards) being used. At a full seven seat blackjack table plus the dealer with everyone getting dealt two cards that means at least 16 cards are coming out of the machine. Since there are often hits, instead of 16 cards, 20 blue cards were laid out on the table while the machine in normal mode shuffled the other 188 cards from red decks. The blue cards were dropped in the hopper to see how long the machine would take to shuffle the cards and how it did it. This was repeated again and again while everyone there discussed exploits. The hopper was pushing one card at a time back into the machine, so the next round was mostly a clean round with no blue cards. Therefore you got about one round with no cards from the previous hand. The discussion became how to not get one hand free of the previous cards, but how to get two rounds…

Here is the part of the Joey video that Houston tried to make clear, there are complex ways to do something and simple ways. Several of the people in this thread were talking complicated stuff and I kept saying it can be simple, like in Texas it could have been set up that if you your first card was a club and everyone at that table was dealt in, then you knew you would win that hand. The KISS Method, Keep It Simple Stupid. Some of you guys way over thought all of this. In this thread, I left several hints, clues and suggestions of how easy this can be, but the discussion got side tracked because of the bickering bitches.

In the blackjack play, after hours of discussing complex ways to get two hands without cards from the original hand, someone thought up the simple “let some air out of the tires when stuck under a bridge” wisdom. Someone suggested slowing down the speed of the shuffle machine. Trying to get to the speed controls took over an hour because it was guarded by a lock that wasn’t a normal hex key. It was probably a proprietary hex key design from the shuffle machine maker so that no one could change the speed of the machine except an authorized Tech.

The “borrowed” shuffle machine had the speed tweaked to where you could get two rounds of play before the cards from the original hand would come into play. And I’m talking normal timed play at a table with hits and splits and doubles, etc. And the speed difference was barely noticeable except for how long it took those cards sitting in the hopper to be pushed back into the machine. That extra free round had multiple advantages from the number of decks you divide the running count by to get a true count, etc. It was the second free round that was bet extremely high because you were diving by a lot less cards left in the deck. That small difference even had the blackjack team members shocked at how often they were getting extremely high true counts to bet big with compared to an uncompromised shuffle machine. If on the original hand, if a whole bunch of small cards came out meaning the count was high and full of high cards, then everyone at the table table the next two rounds extremely fast. If the cards on that original hand were high meaning the count was negative and bad, then the players purposefully played slowed to eat up time and let the shuffle machine fully get those high cards back in the machine. To slow things down you would stand up take money out of your pocket or use chips on the table and ask for change thereby slowing down the hand and stuff like that to let the slow shuffle machine shuffle the good face cards back into the machine. It was 2 great rounds played fast with an awesome count versus only one round played slow with a bad negative count. That multiplier was incredible at pushing out a huge hourly win rate on a continuous shuffle machine that was suppose to stop blackjack card counters. HA.

This is already a long story, but the “borrowed” shuffle machine was put back on the casino floor with only the speed of the machine changed. The blackjack team had play played the shuffle machine before borrowing and knew the hourly win rate and it was no difference from normal play at regular table and it usually took 4 months to win $500,000 in the teams normal play across all Atlantic City casinos. This one change to their play had them win $500,000 in one month. Resorts took the shuffle machine out and changed shuffle machine companies.

The Texas shuffle machines were "borrowed" by someone, compromised in some way and then put back on the casino floor. I’ve first hand seen 5 different styles of shuffle machine “borrowed” and opened up to find exploits. And I’ve got a different story for what was found and what was done to each “borrowed” style of shuffle machine. Was I part of the Resorts Casino play? No. I’m asking for a friend. I mean, I’m just telling what I heard from a friend.

lb thanks for sharing these, very interesting, have you spent any time talking to squidface?

Oh yeah there are several 2+2 posters that you find out after the fact that you crossed paths with many times over the years in casinos offline and online. Wild and crazy times.

Have any of the aggrieved spoken with Prime Social management or owners? Did they offer an explanation, undertake an investigation, anything?

I tried calling a couple times last week and the week before to ask them about this but they won't answer the phone. Plus TD Justin Hammer left or got fired. You gotta wonder if the place will stay open much longer.

It's doing ok. It's open. They usually have 1 to 3 tables of cash games going most days. During the week they have a 5K guaranteed $140 buy in tournament with rebuys and add ons. Also, there are nightly $60 dollar buy in 2-3K guaranteed. They ran a 20K guaranteed $300 buy in yesterday.

Pretty sure Hammer left because he was given an opportunity to TD at the MGM series.

I'm sure they're answering the phones there. You might just be asking the the wrong questions or asking the wrong way.

This event may have been an outlier for this poker room. They don't use automatic shufflers in the vast majority of games that are running.

solid investigative work there, Dick Tracy.

Hi,

I am unsure if we know eachother. I have a strong 21 resume and I find your Post Re CSM absolutely fascnating. Would love to talk 21 over drinks I'm buying if you are interested. I assume you are west coast

I guess Joey needs to move onto addressing Doug's CoinFlex, Squid PM me anytime.

I wonder if he is going to address anything?

Always love a Joey deep dive

I'm a bit slow in getting to this, but this is really good stuff. Thanks, Lady Bruin.

I don't follow Joey. I take it he never really investigated this nor the Coinflex thing involving Doug "I'm sooooo much better than everyone else at everything" Polk?

Confirmed never investigated. Joey busy doing 8 balls instead

Was there ever any more info on this? In particular what the alleged cheats looked like or their names, how they were potentially getting the info in-game, and whether they always worked as a team or also solo?

Always good to be on the lookout for stuff and know what to watch out for if you're playing in a room/casino that uses the DeckMate 2.

Interesting.
At hcl they have a deckmate 1

Exhibit A


This device was off and in the cup holder there seemed to be some sort of device wired into it.


If the deck master 1 was rigged to essentially be a deckmate 2, with rfid cards and real time view of the cards you would you only need to see the first card to see what seat wins? Would this render the cut useless?

well, i guess we'll find out for sure in august : https://www.blackhat.com/us-23/brief...hufflers-31741

Almost 22k posts and you are clueless to state such a thing!

Here's a source from 2009:

https://www.benjoffe.com/holdem/

If this was published by an independant person in 2009 it's extremley likely that this was known about for many years prior to 2009.

I think the best thing for live poker would be for the DeckMate 2 or any machine used to shuffle cards should be banned or very closely regulated because of the ability to rig an outcome of any live poker hand.

jfc dude, you unearth a year old post to lay down insults and fundamentally don't even understand what is being discussed

nobody said there aren't set variations where you can ensure x player wins every time

that much is obvious

To be fair you said it didn't happen