Cheers.

Joey in short post, was you aware of theses things and if yes then when:

How much coaches was paid typically under UpswingPoker contacts?
How much JNandez specifically was paid in % for university or lab?
That JNandez was paid after you was paid your cut.

Thanks.

Some question to Joe Ingram

1) It seems now you are trying to take the middle of the road approach. However after Jnandez left you have made multiple tweets/vids where you try to portray him as a scammer/disingenuous.

What has changed now where the only thing you have to say about him is that he did a good job on the PLO lab?

2) What were you initially told when Jnandez left from the Upswing team. Did you believe them fully or talk to Jnandez about it? Why was there such bad blood between you when you had seemingly been friends for the past 2 years?

Copying from the NVG Moderation thread:

Can we get confirmation if was Doug Polk or not?

Maybe someone should request it is changed back.

It was a representative of the company. I usually approve changes like this when they are specifically requested and seem reasonable. Nobody requested the thread be deleted or altered in any other way.

I have no idea what deals people had with Upswing. I assumed it would be some type of upfront payment + a percentage on what was sold. I didn't know what JNandez deal was.

Both products sold far more than what I brought in. Assuming JNandez got 25% of $750ish for the products I sold, the difference for him would be about $11,000 if the deal between myself/upswing and upswing/him was different on the University. That is only through me as an affiliate and not all the other affiliates.

I think JNandez continues to put out great content and is also some type of word (I'm not sure it is either of those two). He claimed to be my friend and when some type of issue came up that he was upset about, he decided to wait for months before having a 15 min conversation with me outside a poker room after we had been playing all night. I do think he did a disservice to the people who purchased the PLO Lab.

We haven't spoken since that night at the Aria I believe, he did send me a message about meeting up while he was in Vegas earlier this year. JNandez was one of my favorite people that I met through poker, he is one of the few people who share a similar excitement that I do for PLO and also has a similar work ethic/ambition for what he does. I'm more upset that I lost someone I thought I would be friends with for years to come.

I promoted JNandez more than anyone else in the poker world. We've done about 15 or so streams/podcasts on my channel over the years, I would bring him up when PLO was brought up, I would bring him up & his training material up when someone would ask how to get better at PLO. I asked him to be a part of the book that I wrote. I guess he thinks none of this matters in the end as to why so many people purchased the course to begin with (through myself, someone else, or Upswing itself).

Thanks for clarification.

Maybe people should hear both sides of the story before making any assumptions.

+1

Every Poker player is in it for the money. It would be naive to think otherwise.
So I don't understand the drama over everything. Negranu scams, Galfond will with his site and so does Joey. People at the Top of an industry or are the face of it have a way of staying there and most of the time it's by being a bully. Just look at other figures outside of Poker like Armstrong.
I will break this now down with Doug's fight with negranu. Higher rake = less break even players = less players that want to improve and search for training sites like upswing = hurting Doug's business.
I don't understand how in the world of solvers people buy upswing or any site for that matter. Discussing hands on discord with fellow grinders about the results (of the solvers) beats imo any way overpriced training site. You need to study this game and look at frequencies and how to apply the solvers solutions (minimal exploitive play incl.) Into your game. Anyways this whole drama is good PR for everyone involved. Any publicity is good publicity and will increase revenue. Poker is a game about MONEY you are here in this forum because you are hoping/going to make money with your hobby. These guys just want to make even more stable money and the best way is a training site.

So you think that Jnandez owes you part of his success/profits with Upswing poker because you helped elevate his stature. Which is why you sided with Doug/Upswing when he decided to leave and cut off the affiliate revenue?

Not saying you are wrong in the assumption. However doesn't sound the best basis for a friendship.

I subscribed one month through your link and got this response when I asked about the videos:

Hi Name,

Unfortunately Joe Ingram does not work for us and what he promises has nothing to do with Upswing.

You will need to contact him.

If you run into any other questions or concerns please just let me know.

Thanks,

The date on this e-mail is posterior to the date you have on those videos. What proof do you need to send me the videos?

The funny part is that this whole drama could have been prevented (but thank god it wasn't) if Doug had not made that swing at Nandez with that scarf story. Doesn't matter if it's true, it is going to reflect poorly on both parties when the real shots start getting fired.

Begun the coaching war has.

JNandez doesn't owe me anything. I'm not sure why I would side with JNandez after what went down. He was upset with his deal with Upswing and upset about the deal I and other affiliates had with Upswing.

My point was that if he was ever upset about something like that, I am easy to find and talk about it with. I'm not sure what kind of friendship we had.

PM sent

OK then i guess the money question is:

What do you think 'went down'
Ie: what is your opinion of this event in full in your own words.

As an observer it seems Jnandez got hustled a bit on the initial %, then got screwed out of $90k, all while following the contract he signed and completing the 3 months.

There seems to be something missing as to why he is the bad guy?

Was you paid more then 1200$ for 4 months of lab as affiliate? Or better what was your exact earnings during 4 months of lab?

(assuming 200k post is accurate) Jnandez deal really isn't that bad for him in the gambling training product realm. he did well for his skill level (very good but not special). it might seem like doug and upswing had better end, but that's proven to be market rate (and why most people shouldn't really make training products)

and this is ignoring that upswing really boosted jnandez's notoriety

If the scarf guy's mom wasn't a good knitter, none of this would happen.

It really is a chaotic universe we live in.

ofc. joe was aware of the fact, that he had one of the best deals he could imagine locked up.

when nandez confronted him at the aria , joe only said, it is a done deal brother, sorry.


joe, doug and the rest of the crew all knew, that jnandez and his plo lab was one of the best things that could happen to them and they were ready to abuse him to the fullest.

if you believe otherwise, i dont know

Most interesting part of the story is Doug staring weirdly at JNandez from the 2nd floor of his house and just letting him stand at the door without saying anything lol. Doug confirmed socially awkward.

Fernando is definitely a business fish though, he should not have signed any contract if he was not 100% happy. No good signing then crying about it later.

It's true. Those scarves are DOPE.

Now I really want one.

Hi Doug!

Couple questions:

What's up with the story about ignoring JNandez and his bottle of scotch in your foyer?

When is the next Twitch Warcraft 3 stream?

Can you make me feel more comfortable about signing up for the Upswing Lab when you are having such a hard time with the bankroll challenge?

You historically have seemingly had to schedule things far in advance because you are so busy. What do you do during the day?

Thanks for the silly videos!

This.

How much did you receive during jnanadez last 3 months Joe? Is it more than $1100? Is it more than $300?