Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2018, 03:36 PM   #126
iburydoscocaroaches
grinder
 
iburydoscocaroaches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 640
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
Fernando Habegger (Jnandez) has exercised his option to leave Upswing Poker by written notice after a 90 day period. It is unfortunate to see him go, but he will be leaving the Upswing Team beginning at the start of April. He created excellent work at Upswing, and he is both a good PLO player as well as an outstanding coach. His work with the company will be missed.

Most importantly, we will be taking care of our customers. Many people signed up for 6 or 12 month courses to be taught by Jnandez, and due to these circumstances that will not be possible. Because of this, we will be offering Pro-Rata refunds for anyone who has purchased 6 or 12 month packages, as well as refunds for anyone who recently elected to sign up for monthly subscriptions. If you are an unhappy PLO Lab customer, contact our support team and we will remedy the situation.

We are not planning on closing the PLO lab however, and moving forward we will be doing our best to bring on an excellent team of coaches. We already have several applicants, and I am hoping to create a team of coaches that will further improve the quality of this comprehensive PLO coaching course.

We want to take responsibility for the mistakes made here, and in the future we will not be relying on a single coach to bring content on a subscription course. We will continue to offer high quality courses despite the issues that have arisen here, and I want to thank everyone who has chosen Upswing Poker as their poker training destination.
I like this keep it more professional. No need for all this drama all these poker trolls want to ignite. Gl to both on their poker careers wherever it may go. It is like playing a poker hand. Learn from your mistakes to make better improvements going forward from both parties. THat is the + ev way to go about it. All we can control is how we react to a situation that didn't go the way we thought it would. Can either be negative about it or turn it into a positive situation by learning from it.
iburydoscocaroaches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 04:04 PM   #127
Defarse
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 73
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA_Anonymous View Post
1099 employee
An employee is not issued a 1099
Defarse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 04:29 PM   #128
Tilltard
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 332
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by illdonk View Post
So you think it would still be unethical if he had stayed for the full 12-18 months and then started his own business?
No, that's the original agreed upon time. It just looks super shady that he's taking the first possible exit and is looking to use the same clients. This is the reason most/some start-ups and businesses that have client acquisition as a major hurdle require employees to sign non-competes*. I guess Doug's lawyer didn't think of that either.

Last edited by Tilltard; 01-09-2018 at 04:35 PM.
Tilltard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 05:54 PM   #129
RalphWaldoEmerson
Pooh-Bah
 
RalphWaldoEmerson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: the ocean
Posts: 5,198
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

You're totally clueless about poker instruction economy. Using the same clients? Non compete clauses? Lol how wide do you think the pool of people is who play PLO seriously enough to pay for coaching in 2018? You think it's some highly competitive market where coaches compete ruthlessly with each other for market share?

There are very few regs still around who a) are winners b) are willing to coach which often is dubiously +EV for them c) are eloquent enough to be able to express complex thoughts into workable user content. Jnandez is one of just a few who fit all these criteria.

In this kind of environment, there's not really such thing as "stealing clients." People who want the good stuff will go and get the good stuff, at whatever cost, especially since the pricing is usually well worth the EV you gain from the content. It's mostly the same people that are already on every instructional website, it's not like a market which gains lots of new users every day that need to be "converted."
Yes there's some upside to Jnandez joining upswing and getting his name out there a bit more, no denying that. But its not like you're saying at all with regard to the market forces.
RalphWaldoEmerson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 06:30 PM   #130
domgio7
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 325
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Sometimes you have to leave a company if you think there are better opportunities elsewhere. Many great companies are started by branching off an existing one. Unethical but legal describes how many people got rich.
domgio7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 08:17 PM   #131
Purasevic
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 638
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

I think this situation will be win- win for both sides at the end.Jnandez will make his own course,Upswing will find another coach/coaches and players will have better choice for

plo training site.
Purasevic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 09:23 PM   #132
Outoftime44444
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 144
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Either JNandez or Doug are completely lying, and because Mason deleted the post while the truth was coming out, it looks like JNandez and Doug reached an agreement to leave it for their mutual benefit- regardless of the truth!
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 10:59 PM   #133
Tuma
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tuma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Same old T
Posts: 11,686
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Either JNandez or Doug are completely lying, and because Mason deleted the post while the truth was coming out, it looks like JNandez and Doug reached an agreement to leave it for their mutual benefit- regardless of the truth!
The info presented seemed honest. It was deleted because Doug was being foolishly aggressive and Fernando started to roll up his sleeves.
Tuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 12:03 AM   #134
TimStone
See my staking forum thread
 
TimStone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: all across Asia
Posts: 7,664
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
Maybe

You've added wonderful insight to this thread per usual, nice work
if they sign you as headcoach ill sign up for sure and i have no intentions to ever play PLO just saying #josephingramFTW
TimStone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 12:45 AM   #135
Rich Checkmaker
banned
 
Rich Checkmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,443
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
if they sign you as headcoach ill sign up for sure and i have no intentions to ever play PLO just saying #josephingramFTW
+1

sign me up also.
Rich Checkmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:18 AM   #136
evolution
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,419
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:28 AM   #137
LOLCh1pPorn
Pooh-Bah
 
LOLCh1pPorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Probably not folding
Posts: 4,543
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

POT POT POT POT POT POT POT

Last edited by LOLCh1pPorn; 01-10-2018 at 07:29 AM. Reason: limit omaha
LOLCh1pPorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:39 AM   #138
niminator
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbum983 View Post
Poor Doug gets taken advantage of again. Reminds me of the Ben toblerone situation.

However it seems like he’s his own worst enemy, how does he not even know his own contract and then complain about it...lol
Doug runs bad with regards to PLO on all fronts...
niminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 04:14 PM   #139
WCGRider
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WCGRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: So Cute and Fashionable
Posts: 6,874
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Wanted to clear up a few points.

The PLO Lab will be moving forward. We have already had some exciting applications and I feel strongly we will be able to create an even stronger course coming out of this.

We will be adding in multiple coaches, so that we don't have the same dependency in the future. This should be doable by looking to pay highly competitive rates within the industry and it is our number one priority to do the right thing for our members.

While the Upswing Team is unhappy with the decision that Fernando has made, we respect his right to legally excercise that option.

I don't think in this particular instance it serves much benefit to get into a mudslinging contest.

This has been a learning experience for myself, and I want to the thank the people that have supported both Upswing and myself over the course of the past couple years. The mistakes made here will be used to improve our business and prevent similar mistakes from taking place in the future.
WCGRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 04:35 PM   #140
wheatrich
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wheatrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,149
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
I don't think in this particular instance it serves much benefit to get into a mudslinging contest.
Disappointing because that's what NVG is for.
wheatrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 04:58 PM   #141
StackedYouSon
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 741
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
Disappointing because that's what NVG is for.
He's due to out someone in the community this year. He's been averaging about 1 a year so lets hope he sticks to that.

Also, is there any chance Upswing ever goes to a month-to-month payment format? I'd love to join but the upfront cost has me feeling a little unsure. I'm sure the value is there but forking over $600+ to get in might be a little steep for a micros pleb like myself.
StackedYouSon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 05:08 PM   #142
grunderson
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 58
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon View Post
He's due to out someone in the community this year. He's been averaging about 1 a year so lets hope he sticks to that.

Also, is there any chance Upswing ever goes to a month-to-month payment format? I'd love to join but the upfront cost has me feeling a little unsure. I'm sure the value is there but forking over $600+ to get in might be a little steep for a micros pleb like myself.
That's a pretty good philosophy, get one person a year so choose wisely.
grunderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 05:42 PM   #143
Purasevic
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 638
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon View Post
Also, is there any chance Upswing ever goes to a month-to-month payment format?
Upswing lab is now month to month.It`s 99$ a month.
Purasevic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 06:06 PM   #144
DrSayre
grinder
 
DrSayre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 576
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon View Post
Also, is there any chance Upswing ever goes to a month-to-month payment format?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic View Post
Upswing lab is now month to month.It`s 99$ a month.
Although the first month is double what the normal month is. I understand why Doug does that, but it's one of the reasons why I waited a little bit to sign up for the annual plan.
DrSayre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 06:20 PM   #145
bombonca
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,188
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
Disappointing because that's what NVG is for.
He did call Fernando a "good plo player"
bombonca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 06:34 PM   #146
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,825
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
we respect his right to legally excercise that option.

I don't think in this particular instance it serves much benefit to get into a mudslinging contest.

This has been a learning experience for myself,
Like a boss.

Well done.

If I knew what PLO was, I'd sign up with you all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by niminator View Post
Doug runs bad with regards to PLO on all fronts...
lolz. 7 humor points for you.
PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 09:19 PM   #147
MichaelJordan23
centurion
 
MichaelJordan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 109
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

My 2 cents...

Doug is to Upswing Poker like Dana White is to the UFC. He's the face of the company and is very outspoken on his thoughts and views. Because of this I don't find it surprising when a situation like this arises and he decides to express himself publicly. People like him and Dana aren't afraid to air out their dirty laundry and I think this can cause unnecessary drama. Not saying being the Dana White of Upswing Poker is a bad thing (I'd actually argue it's +EV in Upswings case) but the added drama is merely a bi-product of them be so similar in that regard.

Doug should have had Upswing Poker release an official statement on the matter instead of Doug acting indirectly on behalf of Upswing and posting on 2+2. I like Doug, enjoy the content he creates, and think he's an excellent ambassador for poker. I find his honesty and moral compass to be very on par to that of Joe Rogan's so for that I respect him greatly. I'm sure he'll learn from this and handle better in the future.

JNandez had every right to exercise his opt-out clause. I think he benefitted greatly from working for Upswing. I've been a pretty big poker fan the last few years and I never heard of him until he signed with Upswing. I don't think the exposure and opportunities he gained from Upswing should be downplayed. I also believe he didn't have the customers in mind when he made the decision to opt-out early. Either that or he consciously made the decision knowing it was a great opportunity to start his own training site and convert a portion of the Upswing members over to his platform. I don't want to speculate which occurred, just pointing out that these are the only two possible examples of his thought process.

Last edited by MichaelJordan23; 01-10-2018 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Spelling
MichaelJordan23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 10:55 PM   #148
TimStone
See my staking forum thread
 
TimStone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: all across Asia
Posts: 7,664
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post

The PLO Lab will be moving forward. we will be able to create an even stronger course coming out of this.
i read between the lines here and this can only mean ONE THING!:

JOSEPH INGRAM IS ONBOARD NOW!!!!


So happy where do i sign up?
TimStone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 01:24 AM   #149
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 47,193
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
We have already had some exciting applications
We knew that already...

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Vex- View Post
Hi Doug. I am US based player interested in the position. Right now I'm crushing 2PLO at a clip of 42.56bb/100 (and I have the screenshots to prove it). I noticed in your tweet about the opening that you are offering a very generous compensation package. One way in which I stand out from the other competing applicants is that I am willing to accept alternate forms of payment in lieu of aforementioned salary. In this case, I'd be willing to do some sort of NLH/PLO coaching trade (payment to be remitted up front of course). Four hours ought to do the trick, please let me know.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 01:59 AM   #150
illdonk
veteran
 
illdonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,685
Re: JNandez Leaves Upswing Poker Statement Thread

I think that's just a negotiating tactic on Doug's part. He pretends there's other possible candidates so Vex doesn't have all the leverage, even though it's pretty obvious how this will end up.
illdonk is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online