True, it has managed to both sidetrack and compound the issue.

Mason made this decision on his own accord. Following the thread being taken down we spoke and agreed to make statements.

Upswing and 2+2 have a close relationship, but we would not ask for an abuse of that power to serve our agenda.

Seems pretty silly to delete the original thread on a discussion board such as NVG.. I mean isn't the point for people to post their views no matter who they are? (Doug, jnandez etc?) It also makes the site look bad because its defending / not wanting one of its most prominent (based on ads I see) paying advertisers to look bad then releasing a statement that pretty much confirms that (mason said he didn't want them to say anything that would hurt either of their images / future interests..) lol


oh well 2018 poker drama sucks

Guys i think there's no point in proving anything regarding

Original thread deleting, since we basically know reasons.

Both sides have said, especially Doug some things they

regret now, it doesn't matter who asked for thread to be

deleted. Yes, probably Doug non formally but that's

irrelevant. My question would be did Upswing know for

additional expenses JNandez had with his team and what was their opinion on that.

Second why wait 3 more months when situation is not

pleasant for both sides, neither upswing customers? If they

can find new coach/coaches is it better to make a deal with

JNandez to break the contract as soon as possible?

Yeah, young people wouldn't post dumb, emotional drivel about their taxes going up when a Democrat is elected and about Trump being good for online poker. That kind of wisdom and business knowledge comes with experience.

What's up Doug? Polar Beard here!

Long time fan here. You caught my attention from the very first day: a great poker mind, some very good communication skills, a witty personality, and such generosity, such drive... You could wtf deliver quality streams for 12 hours +. Fast enough, I was a witness of the biggest tournament win ever on Twitch (Kilimandjaro). Thanks for thoses good times!

Then it went downwards fast. Bye! Bye! generosity: "I won't Twitch much anymore, top spaces occupied by JCarver, not enough ROI...". You started a show with Papi (joeyingram1), who, imo, considers himself lucky to be one of your friends and looked sooo pumped and ready to achieve great things with you. You killed that project after 2 episodes because you thought that the ROI vs effort was not worth it. Sucks for Joey imo.

Lately, you have been very vocal about doing what will be more +EV for your brand. You even told a fan to feel free to unfollow if he didn't like that you do less poker content, more Bitcoin stuff...

I feel all that passion demonstrated to your fans at your beginings has gone. I feel that you are now a calculated, cold minded person. I feel that you find it ok not to respect your word (i.e.:bankroll challenge) if it does not hurt your brand.

What I feel about you, imo, is similar to what you felt about jnandez yesterday. While I wish nobody harm, I hope that this will help you to grow as a person.

Good luck.

in b4 Doug:

came here and expected some action but nah! **** tis

5 years ago we wouldve had already a cage fight scheduled in vegas + rematch in macao with timex serving as teh bookie and now we have boring PR statements and censorship...

ohhboy how times have changed:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Some of the best and most respectable content Doug has put out is shedding light on unethical people in the poker world. Clearly he had strong feelings yesterday that what JNandez had done to him and Upswing subscribers was unethical, though completely legal due to a contractual mistake on Doug's end. I agree JNandez appears to have acted unethical based on the information available. More information may have come to light allowing people to form more enlightened opinions on the situation, but alas that appears as if that will not be possible in this forum.

It was almost certainly in the best interest of Doug and JNandez for Mason to pause the discussion at that time. It didn't shed a good light on either and it was clear that everything that should have been worked out in a professional manner prior to public statements being made hadn't at that time. Mason did them both a solid.

I hate pr statements, pc culture, and censorship. I prefer to hear the facts, the truth, and people's genuine feelings. I believe it allows us to form more enlightened opinions and make better decisions for ourselves. 2+2 management obviously can do as they please with their forum, but I would caution against similar actions going forward as it may result in people preferring to use other forums where they feel the truth isn't being censored. Just my 2 cents.

-MCA

Cliffs of deleted posts?

Let's rid the poker world of training sites and nits!!!! Several good things would come of it and stuff like this between DP and JN would never happen

The first thread had some action, but it was deleted because it contained factually accurate statements from the two parties that could have led to misconceptions.

Oh, and apparently Doug didn't say enough nice things about Fernando in the first statement.

spoilsport

What Mason did in deleting the thread was a good decision. No need to hear gossip and we're all adults here. If you think that this was somehow shady then don't buy from Upswing or 2+2. If you do that whatever was said in the thread won't impact you one way or the other.

You can flame away at me and call me baby names like suck up or whatever but Mason can do whatever he wants really. This is a free service he's providing. A very valuable free service for a lot of people i'm sure.

It is not gossip when it is literally Doug and JNandez saying exactly what happened.

This is the News, Views, and Gossip forum. The forum literally has "Gossip" in its name.

And what Outoftime wrote.

Yes it was very truthful and uncomfortable.I lol'd.

I completely agree with your second point you suckup.

Yeah I got that but he deleted the thread so why do you care? You really need that thread up? What difference does it actually make?

Awe muffin, did it trigger you?

Hello Doug. I heard your looking for a lawyer with the knowledge of writing contract designed to not legally **** you.. Oh, and knowledge of the industry.

Hello Jnandez, rumour has it that you setting up a training site with multiple employers.

Here I am boys.


OT: I see no problem with Jnandez behaviour towards this at all. Upswing indirectly created a situation where Jnandez wasn't satisfied with the environment as an employer. Upswing also directly created the contract that Jnandez signed with them..

Equilibrium in business means that stupid businesses fail, and smart ones last. This whole thing tells the story of Upswing in my opinion

Why would I be triggered? I agree with your entire 2nd paragraph as well as get to call you a suckup like you said I could. Oh and you called me muffin like my grandma would. I'd say I'm in a genuinely good mood.

The crowd approves

Hey Doug, try to hire apo5tol :P he is a good PLO player and i think he could be a good coach too :P . If not, try to add isildur1 as a coach :kappa

mason malmuth.....you did wrong by deleting.
if it were some nobodies you would let it go.

this is some straight up bull****.

censor me

im in for polkcoin