This made me lol

Wow kid makes millions goes broke and now is
Playing on borrowed nickels. Imagine in 5-10 years where will he be?
Guys like cantu , chino , lil Holdem etc these dudes
Need our prayers that they find a better meaning to life

The fact that you wouldn't have access to your own cash at any point in time completely blows my mind.

Regardless, we've seen countless stories on the NVG of people either not paying or taking way too long to pay back. I've seen stories in the staking forums as well, and I've witnessed it countless times locally also. If you lend money to a bad player or gambler you are just asking to lose your money. If you lend money to a winning player then your actions are illogical regardless of whether or not he/she will pay back the money.

Tournament schedules shouldn't be made around other peoples schedules. If tournament was supposed to resume on day XXX you either play on day XXX and miss the main or you play the main and miss out on the other tournament. I have no idea if he is good or would have won that match but it seems pretty obvious that he got screwed and he was just making valid points about it. It has nothing to do with his skill or adjusting.

I know you don't like him so try to keep your personal feelings out of this.

Seriously? He's nearly wiping away the tears as he whines about how a tournament ruling didn't go his way. There have been countless examples of players feeling like they've been treated unfairly or even robbed in a tournament setting, and how frequently do they resort to throwing a tantrum during an interview?

saying emotionally unstable was maybe a bit strong for me to say I guess, but what I was trying to say is-- If Jeff and Brandon got into an altercation, whos more likely to provoke the situation into fist throwing?

A professional poker player not wanting to pay back his debts, AND being mentally unstable??? So it ain't so!!!

How did he get screwed? How is playing a match on monday different than tuesday? Is he a werewolf who only crushes HU during the full moon?

How do you know my feelings? Have we met? I have no idea who you are. There's a difference between not liking someone and thinking they're bad at poker... I tend to like people who are bad at poker.

the quality of trolls in NVG is declining rapidly. fish taco sucks at trolling almost as much as cantu succeeds at sounding like a bitch every time they interview him.

lisandro didnt have a mark on him

epic..lol

actually shut the **** up

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...onths-1295230/

not exactly:

Maybe they should add credit score to the POY formula...

You probably don't actually play poker then.

But no one posts in nvg about the times they loan someone money and they promptly pay them back. Again I don't know the terms of this loan and it could have been ******ed, but most poker players don't like keeping their entire net worth on them in cash, that would be really dumb. Let me give you a really quick example. I'm planning on grinding 5/10nl today, I bring 5k cash with me to the casino to play. When I get there I see there's a seat open in an amazing 25/50nl game. I message my friends and sell 50% of myself in that game, but I'd like to buy in for 10k and only have 5k on me. My friend just had a really good day and has more cash than he needs on him. I ask him if he can loan me 15k for two 200bb bullets in the game and I'll pay him back either way. Worst case scenario I lose it all, get the 10k from people who bought pieces of me and 5k from my bank and pay him back in a few days.

This happens all the time and nvg doesn't hear about it, but the 1% of the time it happens all the nvg regs come out and talk about how dumb they were to loan money it's always a bad idea they'd never do it blah blah blah. If you don't loan other people money gl ever getting them to loan you money. If you're in a position where you'll never need that then props to you do what you gotta do no one says you have to loan people money to be a poker player. But please don't trash people who loan money when you don't play poker yourself, and let's be real if it blows your mind that there'd ever be a point where you don't have access to 100% of your cash you clearly don't play live poker at all, because most people don't bring their entire roll to the casino and instead choose to keep it in safe places such as banks or online poker sites.

Really? I've been playing live full time for close to 3 years.

If you need your entire net worth to play a game, then you are a degenerate gambler.

I don't understand why it's so difficult to have cash available for the possible games that might be running. Hell, it's a great deal for you no doubt, but I'm not dumb enough to lend you the money.

Blah blah blah blah pointless rant relying on false assumptions. Poker loans gone bad don't just happen on NVG. They happen in real life too. I see this all the time where people owe a ton of people money and Lisandro is absolutely correct. After a year or two the borrower feels like they are entitled to not pay back the loan.

But the question is which is a bigger number. the EV you lose by not playing in the "amazing 25/50" or the amount you save from loaning players money that they never pay back.

If say you lose 50k in EV by not playing in the game, and players never pay back 60k in loans you give them, you just made/saved 10k in witch case your better off. At any rate its a formula to calculate and its not the same for everyone.

Terrible thread

people that trust other players are watching this video and have that kind of thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS7Cv04hwjc

the problem with this logic is that you cant trust people, and if they are up big and can help you when you are down, the reality is not only is there any guarantee or likely hood that people are going to come back from a down swing and be able to pay back, but also these players are gambling with the same people they are loaning money too. So guys are loaning or gambling for 50k. Then when player A owes B 50k they play each other more and more until eventually A owes B 500k and B is looking to collect to no avail.

Players need to realize this is not 2008/2009 anymore. Those days are long over, and if you spent you time playing poker without a back up plan and are broke now, you have no right nor should you borrow four, five, and six figures because you "used" to play in the big games.
Case and point, Brad Booth used to buy in for $1 million, then go to the bathroom and wipe his ass with hundreds, but i wouldnt loan that guy $20 if he gave me $200 sneakers as collateral.

"Safe places like banks and online poker sites"

I loled 7/10

And this

It's disappointing that every time there is a controversy of some sort, the degree to which you readers/commenters just pile on and denigrate a person/player's reputation is deplorable. I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that the majority of those calling Cantu names have never met the guy. Personally, I became friends with BC back in '08 and hung out a few times with him...and always found him to be fairly introverted, but a nice kid, then he fell in love and got married and we kind of quit talking and hanging out. Which was cool, I kind of did the same thing. I admit...watching him in that video was kind of alarming...he looks and sounds different in ways I'd rather not comment on.

Regarding his reasons for fighting with Lisandro? Everyone loves to label players as 'broke' and 'degenerates' and 'scumbags' and 'welshes.' It's convenient and fun I guess for you guys to just rip into guys when you don't know the story behind the story...which there always is. Not that I'm going to rehab any of you into being more responsible with your words or anything...that's a pipe dream. I'm suggesting that maybe you think about it before you go slamming people you don't know.

I agree in theory with what you wrote, but in this case the counterparty who lent Cantu money and presumably does know him essentially called him a degenerate gambler. Granted that's one side of the argument but I haven't read any negative stories about Lisandro's character that would lead one to suspect he's lying.

Speaking as a guy who has had the very unfortunate experience of being at a table with you I think you are the last person to tell people how to act. Hopefully you are following your own advice and not showing your ass so much.

Yet most of your posts are on 1/2 and 2/5 hands on 2p2, you clearly don't have experience playing in 5/10+ games which is where loans would matter a lot more.


I gave you a specific example where people who are worth 6 figures+ and would only be putting an additional 5k at risk would legitimately need a loan. And that's only a mid-stakes live game, I don't know much about high-stakes games but I'd imagine most guys who would sit 200/400nl games, even if rolled, aren't regularly carrying around enough cash to play those games.


I didn't ask you to loan me money. I just ask you not to be a pretentious judgemental ******* about it when I loan and receive loans from other poker players and tell me I deserve it when the 1% of the time I get scammed. But apparently that's too much for most of nvg.


On what planet are loans lasting a year or two in the first place? The problem occurs far before it's been a year or two.