PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $50/$100 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

ActionFreak (SB): $20,960.86 (210 bb)
LLinusLLove (BB): $61,743.55 (617 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($150)
ActionFreak (SB) raises to $300, LLinusLLove (BB) 3-bets to $900, ActionFreak (SB) calls $600

Flop: ($1,800) K Q 9 (2 players)
LLinusLLove (BB) bets $557.23, ActionFreak (SB) raises to $2,013.21, LLinusLLove (BB) calls $1,455.98

Turn: ($5,826.42) 9 (2 players)
LLinusLLove (BB) checks, ActionFreak (SB) bets $2,911.96, LLinusLLove (BB) raises to $6,822.79, ActionFreak (SB) calls $3,910.83

River: ($19,472) Q (2 players)
LLinusLLove (BB) bets $19,469.50, ActionFreak (SB) calls $11,224.86 (all-in)

Total pot: $41,921.72 (Rake: $2.50)

Showdown:
LLinusLLove (BB) shows A A K Q (a full house, Queens full of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 78%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

ActionFreak (SB) shows K T K 3 (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 22%, Flop: 90%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

ActionFreak (SB) wins $41,919.22

its pretty silly top be up in arms about datamined hands when its impossible to enforce even if you think its unethical, which is arguble, its done in all esports/chess and its not like he has all his HH or anything thats not out in the public.

edit: also theres some irony discussing this in a thread of datamined hands.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=3745

Hey Car(the Boston way) New,

Good job.

The people taking the course are never going to play Linus anyways. Kind of a moot point imo.

Thanks, although I have had good feedback on it from people playing up to 25/50 so I prob can't get away with that one!

You're comparing public information to datamined hands you bought.

"Other people do it so it's okay"

What he said.

Well the right thing was to ask him for permission before releasing it at least I think?
Now would you say the reasonable thing to do is to go forward and offer him a cut from the course on your own initiative - you use his hands, his brand to promote it, I'm sure al least some % would be fair? As you said, those hands and his plays will help a lot of people at lower stakes

I mean you said it yourself - you felt a little guilty when you found he was not a GTO bot, it was a couple weeks before release so you went ahead and hoped it's going to be fine because other people are doing it

If Kanu made a course on some random non top ms-hs reg discussing his leaks, that would be very very bad for the guy and would imo be kind of scummy, as it would hurt the player quite a lot. So should linus be treated differently just because he has climbed to the nr1 position?

I doubt the course will harm him much, maybe even get some more ppl to play him. So is it ok to treat him differently because it doesn't hurt him that much or at all? I kind of think yes? But prob would've been class to contact him prior to releasing, but then again what good would've come from that looking from Kanus pov, how likely linus says "ok np".

How much he lose it.?

Yeah couple years ago noone even talked about this with Red Baron's hands
(I guess we thought Educa had his own actually, I don't recall anyone even bringing this up at all)
The landscape's changed now though HSDB Doesn't run apparently, coaches get warnings or bans for sharing hands in private stables, datamining services try to stay out of public eye somewhat at least.

Even normal and always super common database analysis coachings where the dude sends you his OWN hands on himself you can't stream without getting into trouble...

Reminded me of that comment Kanu was talking about when a breakeven dude saying he's overthinking - the whole industry became a lot more rec conscious, because people having fun and losing money is the only reason why there are pros.

So even though things like this can't be stopped just slowed down the trend is not to go public with them openly like this, much less with full blast on-display marketing like Doug's team is so good at

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $50/$100 ($20 ante) - 6 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

Iimitless (UTG): $26,883.68 (269 bb)
ZarubaNT (MP): $12,500.00 (125 bb)
LLinusLLove (CO): $10,302.55 (103 bb)
pokerkluka (BU): $11,762.70 (118 bb)
ImagineKing (SB): $21,402.25 (214 bb)
Katz0r (BB): $10,604.45 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($270)
4 players fold, ImagineKing (SB) raises to $300, Katz0r (BB) 3-bets to $1,150, ImagineKing (SB) 4-bets to $5,177.38, Katz0r (BB) 5-bets to $10,584.45 (all-in), ImagineKing (SB) calls $5,407.07

Flop: ($21,288.90) 5 A 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($21,288.90) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($21,288.90) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $21,288.90 (Rake: $5)

Showdown:
Katz0r (BB) shows K A (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 46%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

ImagineKing (SB) shows Q Q (three of a kind, Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 54%, Flop: 13%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)

ImagineKing (SB) wins $21,283.90

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $100/$200 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

Prudently (SB): $23,884.40 (119 bb)
Iimitless (BB): $26,038.54 (130 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($300)
Prudently (SB) raises to $480, Iimitless (BB) 3-bets to $1,980, Prudently (SB) 4-bets to $4,700, Iimitless (BB) calls $2,720

Flop: ($9,400) 3 5 T (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Prudently (SB) bets $2,349.25, Iimitless (BB) calls $2,349.25

Turn: ($14,098.50) 2 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Prudently (SB) checks

River: ($14,098.50) 3 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) bets $18,989.29 (all-in), Prudently (SB) calls $16,835.15 (all-in)

Total pot: $47,768.80 (Rake: $3)

Showdown:
Iimitless (BB) shows T 9 (two pair, Tens and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 46%, Flop: 81%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

Prudently (SB) shows Q 5 (two pair, Fives and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 54%, Flop: 19%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

Iimitless (BB) wins $47,765.80

Mods, could you please move all the advertising and the discussion of the Kanu course into a separate thread in a training content subforum or where ever it belongs?
As always, big thanks to the people who are posting hands

that settles it. course is not scummy at all.

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $100/$200 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

Prudently (SB): $24,535.77 (123 bb)
Iimitless (BB): $52,617.68 (263 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($300)
Prudently (SB) raises to $480, Iimitless (BB) calls $280

Flop: ($960) 6 9 2 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Prudently (SB) checks

Turn: ($960) 8 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Prudently (SB) bets $638, Iimitless (BB) raises to $3,351, Prudently (SB) calls $2,713

River: ($7,662) 3 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) bets $48,786.68 (all-in), Prudently (SB) calls $20,704.77 (all-in)

Total pot: $49,071.54 (Rake: $3)

Showdown:
Iimitless (BB) shows 5 Q (high card, Queen)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 62%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Prudently (SB) shows 7 T (a straight, Six to Ten)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 38%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

Prudently (SB) wins $49,068.54

Guys I am enraged about this handmining stuff.

Kanu

What’s the reason for doing the course , if you don’t 100% feel comfortable and know it’s at least somewhat unethical ?

Didn’t you leave stars for similar reasons? (Felt they were starting to be unethical)

Kanu, I actually think people have more of a problem with your intellectually dishonest reasoning than the actual course itself.

I mean, I think it's a bit crass but I also think this is poker and the sort of stuff that happens in this industry.

However, If you had just owned it from the start "I know that it's wrong but I don't really care" then this would have already blown over by now. If you keep talking about having had a moral quandary over this course, while using reasoning like "Lol, he's rich, who cares" then people are going to call you out for it.

name your course something else imo

+1

I understand Kanu tbh, doubt it was about money necessarily.

You want to put your life's work into something, one last big project before leaving that part of you life behind, so put it out there even you have doubts... You want it to be as good as possible because it will leave a mark on your legacy. The reasonings seem more like reasons for himself to justify his action that wasn't in line with how he sees himself as a person. Alex sounds open to me, not at all like marketing strategy for the course...it was a good point that Kanu was a big headliner for leaving Stars for moral reasons, he repeated several times he wouldn't do anything "wrong".

Even the timebank software seemed like cheating and passes on it ( but then he sees everyone using it and allowed by stars for 20 bucks.)

I'd struggle to say "I know that it's somewhat wrong but I don't really care" because I wouldn't want to see myself that way as a person, I do care... and the course is already out what can I do now? Even if I now do realize I should be honest with myself and other people would appreciate it
That damn rascal Pontylad pointed it out publicly and it will seem like a strategy.

The hands used in educas crush the baron course were mined as well.

ponty comment pretty much nailed it.

i dont have too much skin in this game so i dont really care much.

the mental acrobatics and walls of text kanu posted so far show though that he very well knows that everything he has done here goes against his own ethics.


with his argumentation you can justify almost any behaviour. literally everything in ethics is a grey area because people have different morals. for an outlaw like me i never saw a problem with seating scripts while others were absolutely outraged by it for instance.

since everything ethically is a grey area sites put laws or tocs what is allowed and what not and gathering information from illegally obtained hands is not a grey area it's just illegal.


with his argumentation i can go ahead and run start my own collusion stable on asian apps today because it's a grey area afterall:

- alot of people doing it
- sites can hardly enforce it and maybe dont even want to enforce it
- so should be fine if i do it as well or better if i dont want to participate in it make a video course and found a stable out of it


as ponty said, you don't need walls of text to justify the course, the sentence "i really dont care what you think i want to make money" is more than enough to put this to rest and it's also more honest towards yourself

used to be a big kanu fan... scummy dude

+1 pony + teh timstone