Omg thank you.

Here is some alternative math for OP and others. When Foxwoods runs their Monday madness promos there are 90 games going on a day when there is normally 15 with waitlists a mile long. 25-30 1-2 NL games with people just coming and coming and donking off buy ins all day long. Sure, the morning starts off slow, with people trying to stretch their buy ins and limp fold their way to glory, but by early afternoon he reason they are there has all been forgotten.

I really hate the idea that the casino gets free advertising on how big there jackpot is with players money while taking an extra 15% on top of it.

What US land based casinos take administration fees? It is illegal to do this in nevada and many other states, from the nevada gaming board: https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdo...ocumentid=4507

Promotional Progressive Pots and Pools, Drawings and Giveaway Programs
Note 1: Promotional progressive pots and pools are defined as pots and pools which are contributed to by poker patrons and distributed back to poker patrons based upon the occurrence of a predetermined event.

Note 2: A promotional progressive pot or pool is, pursuant to Regulation 5.110, a “progressive payoff schedule” and must not be eliminated unless in accordance with Regulation 5.110.

14. The dollar amount of funds contributed by players into the pools is returned when won in accordance with the posted rules with no commission or administrative fee withheld.

True, but the addition of new chips via rebuy or new players when others bust is unknowable and so you can't meaningfully include it in any "model" or "assumption." Not to sound defensive, but all you can do is make some basic assumptions and work within that discreet universe of variables.

Point being, the house rake + jackpot + tip at a typical 1-2 game can result in approximately $150 coming off the table every hour. Regardless of the source. And roughly 30 percent of that, maybe more, is the jackpot drop.

A more limited experience is a single hand where two players end up putting in $25 each in the course of the hand. A $50 pot in Florida means a $5 rake, a $2 jackpot drop. Assume a $1 tip. The winner gets $42, not $50. They've risked $25 to win $17.

Interesting. But in my own experience in Florida I constantly see players alter their play chasing the jackpot. The mistake I routinely see is people with sets check calling when they should be charging for straight and flush draws just because they don't want anyone to fold so they can see turn and river. Not unusual to see people give up $100 or even $200 in equity in a large pot hoping they catch the 1 outer along the way to win $500.

Good catch. I was wrong in thinking rooms could keep admin fee. As you have shown, at least in NV they absolutely cannot.

You'd have to look in each states regs to determine where (if anywhere) they could keep fee, but since Nevada is sort of the "gold standard", I'd suspect that not keeping admin fee is industry standard.

Above is all for commercial casinos. Since Poker is Class II, Tribal Casinos operate that game under their own rules and regs.

Of course more people will show up during jackpot promo hours. Why play at 1pm and pay a jackpot rake if you don't get $500 for high hand until 5pm. The point is to offer NO jackpots at all, then people will show up on their own timetable and player pools will be more evenly distributed.

At the VERY LEAST, offer opt-out buttons for those that don't want to play stupid jackpot games. This would please both groups of players. Why is this NEVER discussed as an option? It would be super easy to implement. The house knows who the regs are that don't like jackpots, so these regs are not going to find some angle to opt-in if they happen to hit one while they have an opt-out button.

You're making a huge, and incorrect, assumption here.


Why do they sell so many more lottery tickets when the jackpot gets crazy?

Know what is taking more money out of the poker community? PPpoker and shady club owners...

+1

There is no fee being taken off of player funded pools in Nevada.

In the early 1990’s a Ca. court ruled that the jackpot was an illegal lottery. The Commerce Casino and the Bike fought the ruling and eventually won. As the story went it cost plenty in legal fees which would seem to indicate that the jackpot was very profitable.
In 2007 the Commerce decided to add a jackpot to the 20 game and the 40 game. When some 20 players complained the card room decided to have 20 games with a jackpot and ones without. The weak loose players choose the jackpot games while the tough tight players choose the others. This lasted a few days.

The grinders are contributing more to the jackpots per capita because they play more hands overall (even though they contribute to fewer pots per hands dealt). But they have fewer opportunities to win a bad beat jackpot per x number of hands played, especially if the jackpot is on the small side, because they fold more hands than tourists. However, they may make out on promotions like aces-cracked because they are more likely to get aces cracked by a tourist than visa-versa. So while it's more likely a specific regular will win a jackpot than a specific tourist, overall the situation is probably -ev for the regular.

Two other factors that cause the jackpots to be -ev: The first is the already mentioned money being removed from the poker universe by some players who figured to lose money otherwise. The second is that some rooms (maybe most) take a portion of the jackpot for administration fees. So that's like another rake on the jackpot funds.

The only way the regulars make out is when players who would otherwise not play poker chose to play because of the jackpot, or bad players play with monies that would otherwise be used for something else (sports, food, drink, etc).

As far as tipping the dealers is concerned, dealers are being tipped the same $1 per hand they got 20 years ago. Shuffling machines increased the speed of dealing, increasing the number of hands dealt per hour, but the proliferation of no-limit slowed things down. I suspect dealers are making the same or less than they did years ago from tips (but the cost of living has increased). The result of not tipping is that dealers will either quit in favor of another job, or management will be pressured to increase their salaries before tips. And that in turn will force management to increase the rakes even more. So yes, stop tipping and something will change. They'll start raking $10 per pot, $7 for the house and $3 for the promotion. Or the rake will stay the same and the dealer turnover will be so high that you'll be lucky to get dealt 20 hands per hour. Or management will just close the room. I recommend we address the jackpot issue head on and don't take it out on the little guy trying to make a living.

The way I understood gobbo is that he meant for all casinos/poker rooms to make jackpots mandatory/have them running.
I am hearing at each jackpot-pertaining table a gazillion times a session (at least each time I play one): I only called/was in the hand because of the jackpot.

I can't think of too many things driving VPIP and % of players that see a flop at a standard NLHE table like jackpots do quite frankly...

Only if the same were true in California.

I think it would be fantastic if casinos increased their rake by a dollar but banned tipping dealers.

Huh?

How so? That situation may not play out the way some think. For starters, dealers will lose some incentive to perform well and tolerate abusive players. And increasing the rake by only a dollar will probably reduce the dealers' salaries even if all of the additional rake went to the dealers, as many pots don't get to max rake. Currently, the shortfall caused by small pots and 'stiffs' is offset somewhat by players who tip more than $1. Cardroom management will probably have to raise the rake by $2 to compensate, or rake a dollar before the flop for the dealer, or something similar.

Well I'd be fine if they added the extra dollar to any pots with a flops, not just those that reach max rake. And tolerating dealer abuse seems like a bad thing to me.

I will admit here that I went and played some low-limit LHE over at one of the local rooms (Stones) precisely because I heard the jackpot had climbed fairly high. Sort of like a Powerball or something -- I almost never play these but if the jackpot gets large enough, even I become a sucker for a $2 ticket.

I agree. But there are degrees. For example, an otherwise civil player who's stuck and gets sucked out on the river in a big pot might muck his hand in an aggressive manner, and a card might deflect off the table into the dealer's face. Most dealers would understand that and not call the floor to make an issue of it--especially if the player was a regular tipper and apologetic. Take tipping out of the picture and fewer dealers would suck it up.

But I wasn't thinking specifically of dealer abuse. Players, seemingly, abuse other players more often--for sucking out, slow playing, etc. Most regulars will tolerate a lot of this from losing players, drunks or live ones, as most (all?) of their winnings come from them. Dealers understand this and know most of their tips come from the regulars, so they look the other way. Take tipping out of the picture and their employment relationship becomes just between them and the cardroom and the rules regarding player behavior will be more strictly enforced to the financial detriment of the regulars. I once tipped a floor person $25 for not ejecting an abusive player from the room because he was "good for the game." He was in the process of dropping 2-3K in a 1/2 game.

Let me illustrate another reason dealer tipping as part of compensation is good for the players. In rooms with high-hand jackpots there is typically a qualifying pot size, like ten big bets, and a rule forbidding the discussion of the jackpot during the hand. Players frequently devise ways of telegraphing each other when they qualify, so somebody calls their bet so the pot is sufficiently large (the called amount is refunded surreptitiously after the hand so the floor is unaware of the rule bending). And sometimes the other player is unaware of this practice and a third player has to explain it to them in a way that the dealer or floor is unaware. But, of course, the dealers know full well what is going on and most find a way to not notice. Why? Because the dealer usually gets a portion of the prize as a tip. They have skin in the game and little incentive to call out the rule infraction. Take away that tip and their only incentive is to cover their butt with management.

And then there's that rare dealer who hates his/her job and takes it out on the players, or could care less how well they run the game. Most players would like to have the opportunity to stiff that dealer to encourage him/her to seek employment in another job more to their liking.

Right, you are there to make money not to help others make money. Everyone should stop tipping, and the dealers should seek the additional payment through there employer's. And if the employer's raise rake as a result everyone should boycott them. #endtippingnow

The system works if everyone is happy. If the dealers aren't happy, then the house will raise the rake to pay them directly. Then when those who feel the way you do boycott the room, you will be "unemployed". So you will look for work at another room and start the process all over. Rinse and repeat. Good plan. Why not just play online and leave it at that.

Totally disagree with the no tipping thing. If you’ve ever complained about dealers being slow, rude, ignorant of the game, or just plain bad, it will be so much worse if they have littlw incentive to do a better job.

Can't tell if trolling or entitled.

Based on the apostrophe usage, I’d say he genuinely is that stupid.