I have noticed some posts around about the use of Iovation for age and identity verification at UltimatePoker, and the connection between Iovation and UB. I feel that there may be reason to bring this to the attention of the Nevada Gaming Control Board, but I don't have enough information about the connection. Please post here any details you know about the staff, owners and origins of Iovation, and the connections to UB so I can have the facts at hand to make an informed inquiry with the NGCB. If the info is sensitive, PM me instead.

Mod edit:

Iovation's Leadership Team page has Greg Pierson and Jon Karl as the first two listed, and this site has a pretty good rundown of how those 2 founded UB.

Not sure how great a source gamblingsites.com is, though.

Ty for doing something as a pre-emptive strike.

I was really sad to see all the cheerleaders in the new UP thread dismiss that crucial info.

Here are the quotes from Dax in the main thread which explained the relationship between UP and Iovation.


Apologies. IOVation is our age/identity verification software. You're right though, that message needs to be a bit more friendly.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=124

IOVation has zero access to our software, our database, our hands, our company, our location. We send them a "packet" of information (actually through another vendor called Verifi) that contains a player's SSN/Name/Address/DOB and they tell us yes, no, or maybe so. If we get a Maybe So - we'll need to see a scan of your ID. No means you're using a deceased ID or they found that you're actually only 13 years old.


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=134


Sorry for the delay. Things have been pretty hectic today, as you can imagine. Way more response than we expected - we're thrilled (and thrilled you're thrilled, and thrilled you're thrilled we're thrilled you're thrilled).

IOVation is licensed by Nevada to be a vendor, and if that changes, we'll change. The Gaming Commission pulls apart your life in one of those arduous and thorough processes I know of.

Again, (and I'm sure I'll be saying this a lot), we have zero connection with Ultimate Bet. We have no people, no software, no tools that they used. In fact - our software has been *deeply* rooted by the lab and by the Gaming Commission. We're proud of our software and our people.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=383

i only looked through the first 500 posts. there was more information after the first 500.

Since the founder of Iovation used his software to create a method to steal money from players in the past I would never willingly use a site that used them as a resource. Having the word Ultimate in your name and using Greg Pierson as a resource is a huge red flag. What next, sign Joe Sebok as a pro?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think for most people its not so much that they consider it a risk as much as they don't want any of their money indirectly lining the pockets of former UB scumbags.

Sounds like the connection does need to be brought up, nobody directly involved in the UB/FTP scandals should be allowed any part of legal online poker in the US

and outside of the US

this

I have been on the fence about bringing this out for a while in an article but didn't want to drag Ultimate Poker into it but there is probably no other way to discuss it or get rid of Iovation without it.

Scott Tom (indicted former Cereus owner) threatened to get me blacklisted from online poker for exposing him at 2+2 years ago. It was not long after that threat that I ended up in the negative database at Iovation which led to massive hassles in playing US online poker. My AP account was never closed even though Iovation told other rooms I charged back at AP and AP was the one that reported the negative info.

In addition to not wanting people that may have been a part of UB to make money off of this their DB is tainted and should not be trusted by anyone IMO, even if I was the only person (doubtful) that is the victim of a dishonest abuse of Iovation to revenge them.

FWIW I had no ID verification hassle at UP though.

This was posted in the Cereus thread, not sure if real but thought it was worth quoting in this thread.

_dave_ made a post in the Ultimate Poker thread that seemed to get little attention:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1702

Apparently, years ago the ultimatepoker.com URL was used by UB.

I'm in agreement with above sentiment that it would be silly to assume that superusing is being done via the link to Iovation, but rather there is certainly a bad taste in my mouth that Greg Pierson is still making money off of online poker players.

From http://calvinayre.com/2013/04/30/bus...l-money-race/:

The connection to iovation came up in the first reply of the IP forum discussion thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...hread-1327117/

No one sniffed.

Definitely good on you, OP, for looking further into this.

I wouldn't go that far, sometimes what's under the water is more interesting than what is above.

Lots of good info here - thanks! Keep it coming if there is more. I'll probably refer the NGCB to this thread as one source of relevant info should they initiate an investigation (so no snipes or snarl posts please).

So many reasons to pursue this and get this lowlife 100% out of Ultimate Poker.

1. These crooks should never make a dime off online poker again.
2. Can we 100% trust the security of Ultimate Poker if Greg is involved?
3. How will it look to other states when the crooks from unregulated online poker are involved directly in the infancy of legal online poker?

I know Ultimate Poker is in its infancy but it is shocking they let this happen. I bet there are more reasons others will post.

It's funny how Iovation are affiliated with Ultimate Poker and people are flooding to put money onto the site. Once you see a site associate with those conmen, you choose to do it at your own risk. The fact Hellmuth is gonna get on board this is more sickening. When his rep just about escaped the mess of Ultimate Bet, to jump back into a company affiliated with his 'good buddy' Greg, just makes me wonder what he knew about what was going on behind the scenes years ago. How can this company with these shady characters get to exploit players again?! Unbelievable.

Yes but the new companies will all be douchy scumbags too. Anyone in the poker world who is somehow not a douchy scumbag is like a shimmering diamond is a massive sea of rough

This is disgusting.

It especially bothers me that Ultimate Poker is giving our community the finger, basically telling us that they will continue using Iovation unless they lose their Nevada license.

How about showing some courtesy and appreciation to the community that is your player base?

So Paul Leggett gets hired at Ongame, and Iovation is providing security to the United States' first legal online poker room.

The more things change...

I got censored on the Ultimate Poker support thread for posting the following. I didn't know this thread started.

I'm also looking into whether Marc J Falcone, as related to Fertitta Interactive (indirectly controls UP), might be related to the infamous Peter J Falcone.

https://www.iovation.com/company/board/

http://haleyspokerblog.blogspot.ca/2...ing-names.html


Iovation was one of the companies behind establishing Ultimate Bet (UB) and at least knew about the ‘god mode’ superuser(s) accounts, if not created that hole. You can find out more about Greg Pierson as a founder of Iovation and his knowledge of the super user accounts on Poker Fraud Alert Podcasts since Jan of 2013. Greg Pierson is still at Iovation`s helm and has long been regarded as scum. Ostensibly, Iovations role in relation to UB is the same as its current relationship to UP.

We'll learn more about Greg Pierson, Iovation and the UB scam when(if) Ultimate Beat is released.

So we`re told anyway.
What are you afraid people might learn?

http://www.gamblingsites.com/bio/ultimatebet/
One of the main questions asked at the time is why Iovation, the online security company headed by Pierson, and which supplied Ultimate Bet with its security technology, did not pick up on the fraud and cheating scandal.

FWIW IMO online poker will never be legit. So long as they layer the companies to obfuscate ownership and find a reputable person or two to apply for licenses and such, those in the know will have no problem getting approval from the licensing authority so long as those bodies are also motivated by cash flow from tax or licensing revenue.

For those who don't already know this, this is how big business works and will continue to work as long as we let them. They get away with it by obfuscation and making good with the regulators in some fashion when they are found out; just like scumbags operating FTP outright stole player funds, lived the high life and got away with it. The number of people FTP had in common with Pokerstars and their shared payment processors is as sickening as UP using Iovation.

Go try to figure out exactly who owns and operates UP.

So we have what looks to many like UB's old software and Iovation working security in the background. Really!?

Pretty outrageous. We need to boycott this site and wait for the next one.

every AVENUE should be checked on this and any new sites.

Some resources to help those inclined figure out who owns/operates what:

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Nevad...103379082.aspx

http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/

http://www.reviewjournal.com/busines...ta-interactive

A change in the ownership structure of Fertitta Interactive was approved Thursday by the Nevada Gaming Commission, allowing Station Casinos to control the eventual launch of an online poker operation

Why was a change in ownership necessary before launch?

http://www.zuffainvestoralerts.org/lorenzo-fertitta/
http://www.global-mma.com/t5119-proo...-not-just-ties