I have noticed some posts around about the use of Iovation for age and identity verification at UltimatePoker, and the connection between Iovation and UB. I feel that there may be reason to bring this to the attention of the Nevada Gaming Control Board, but I don't have enough information about the connection. Please post here any details you know about the staff, owners and origins of Iovation, and the connections to UB so I can have the facts at hand to make an informed inquiry with the NGCB. If the info is sensitive, PM me instead.
Originally Posted by Dax @UltimatePoker
As of late Thursday night, May 9th, Ultimate Poker discontinued the use of all services from Iovation. We understand that there were concerns among some of our customers, we hope this makes our players feel more comfortable.
IOVation has zero access to our software, our database, our hands, our company, our location. We send them a "packet" of information (actually through another vendor called Verifi) that contains a player's SSN/Name/Address/DOB and they tell us yes, no, or maybe so. If we get a Maybe So - we'll need to see a scan of your ID. No means you're using a deceased ID or they found that you're actually only 13 years old.
Sorry for the delay. Things have been pretty hectic today, as you can imagine. Way more response than we expected - we're thrilled (and thrilled you're thrilled, and thrilled you're thrilled we're thrilled you're thrilled).
IOVation is licensed by Nevada to be a vendor, and if that changes, we'll change. The Gaming Commission pulls apart your life in one of those arduous and thorough processes I know of.
Again, (and I'm sure I'll be saying this a lot), we have zero connection with Ultimate Bet. We have no people, no software, no tools that they used. In fact - our software has been *deeply* rooted by the lab and by the Gaming Commission. We're proud of our software and our people.
Since the founder of Iovation used his software to create a method to steal money from players in the past I would never willingly use a site that used them as a resource. Having the word Ultimate in your name and using Greg Pierson as a resource is a huge red flag. What next, sign Joe Sebok as a pro?
I have been on the fence about bringing this out for a while in an article but didn't want to drag Ultimate Poker into it but there is probably no other way to discuss it or get rid of Iovation without it.
Scott Tom (indicted former Cereus owner) threatened to get me blacklisted from online poker for exposing him at 2+2 years ago. It was not long after that threat that I ended up in the negative database at Iovation which led to massive hassles in playing US online poker. My AP account was never closed even though Iovation told other rooms I charged back at AP and AP was the one that reported the negative info.
In addition to not wanting people that may have been a part of UB to make money off of this their DB is tainted and should not be trusted by anyone IMO, even if I was the only person (doubtful) that is the victim of a dishonest abuse of Iovation to revenge them.
FWIW I had no ID verification hassle at UP though.
Last edited by John Mehaffey; 05-08-2013 at 07:17 PM.
Hey guys lets keep the discussion goin and lets get some of our hard earned money back.. I don't want to beat a dead horse but call JASON COWLY: DOJ (212)637-2479
till he is sick of hearing from us and something is done. He's easy to talk too and he basically said nobody ever asks about ub/ap funds that's a main reason its on the back burner!!!! And as far as the UB "pros" go, they absolutely are in the wrong some of them,and I have been exchanging emails with Brad Booth who got screwed a couple hundred thousand and I asked him if he knew anything about Hellmuth and UB here is his response to that:
May 1 (6 days ago)
Not to sure how I can help homie - all I can say... Is hellmuth and crew are about to get paid again from a company called iovation --- they built the company with cheating funds when at UB... And now are working with the new site ultimate poker..... It's ****ing gross
Sent from my iPhone
This was posted in the Cereus thread, not sure if real but thought it was worth quoting in this thread.
Apparently, years ago the ultimatepoker.com URL was used by UB.
I'm in agreement with above sentiment that it would be silly to assume that superusing is being done via the link to Iovation, but rather there is certainly a bad taste in my mouth that Greg Pierson is still making money off of online poker players.
Long before Tuesday’s launch, many players had questioned the wisdom of using the word ‘Ultimate’ in any new online poker venture, given the sordid history of the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal and that site’s post-Black Friday implosion. Then one of the first players to attempt to register at the Ultimate Poker site received a notice that said simply “IOVation Error.” IOVation, if you recall, is the company set up by Greg Pierson that provided Ultimate Bet’s software and created the ‘God mode’ that allowed Russ Hamilton and others to view their opponents’ hole cards.
Danek responded to these concerns on with the following: “IOVation has zero access to our software, our database, our hands, our company, our location. We send them a “packet” of information (actually through another vendor called Verifi) that contains a player’s SSN/Name/Address/DOB and they tell us yes, no, or maybe so.”
Lots of good info here - thanks! Keep it coming if there is more. I'll probably refer the NGCB to this thread as one source of relevant info should they initiate an investigation (so no snipes or snarl posts please).
So many reasons to pursue this and get this lowlife 100% out of Ultimate Poker.
1. These crooks should never make a dime off online poker again.
2. Can we 100% trust the security of Ultimate Poker if Greg is involved?
3. How will it look to other states when the crooks from unregulated online poker are involved directly in the infancy of legal online poker?
I know Ultimate Poker is in its infancy but it is shocking they let this happen. I bet there are more reasons others will post.
It's funny how Iovation are affiliated with Ultimate Poker and people are flooding to put money onto the site. Once you see a site associate with those conmen, you choose to do it at your own risk. The fact Hellmuth is gonna get on board this is more sickening. When his rep just about escaped the mess of Ultimate Bet, to jump back into a company affiliated with his 'good buddy' Greg, just makes me wonder what he knew about what was going on behind the scenes years ago. How can this company with these shady characters get to exploit players again?! Unbelievable.
Is it true that Iovation, the company that was used to fleece UB, is now involved in Ultimate Poker?
Iovation was one of the companies behind establishing Ultimate Bet (UB) and at least knew about the ‘god mode’ superuser(s) accounts, if not created that hole. You can find out more about Greg Pierson as a founder of Iovation and his knowledge of the super user accounts on Poker Fraud Alert Podcasts since Jan of 2013. Greg Pierson is still at Iovation`s helm and has long been regarded as scum. Ostensibly, Iovations role in relation to UB is the same as its current relationship to UP.
We'll learn more about Greg Pierson, Iovation and the UB scam when(if) Ultimate Beat is released.
Originally Posted by sparhawk36
As has been stated several times in this tread. Iovation is one of only 2 companies licensed by the NVGB to provide age and identity verification. Iovation has no access to any player information, servers, software or any other part of the game itself. it is only used to verify that you are who you say you are and that you are over 21 years old. This is done by comparing your SS number, and the address you input to verifiable addresses for you in the database.
So we`re told anyway.
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
Actually Iovation is not licensed by the NGCB. They are a third-party vendor for the licensed service provider CAMS, LLC. I don't know the licensing investigation procedures used by the NGCB in the case of third-party vendors, but perhaps that is how the UB connection flew under the radar. Perhaps it should be brought to the attention of the NGCB. Here is their contact info: http://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=24
Or, PM me with all the relevant info, connections, etc. and I'll do it.
Originally Posted by LovinItAll
Is there some player benefit to your inquiry/offer to help?
What are you afraid people might learn?
Last edited by 3ozBacardi; 05-09-2013 at 12:33 AM.
http://www.gamblingsites.com/bio/ultimatebet/ One of the main questions asked at the time is why Iovation, the online security company headed by Pierson, and which supplied Ultimate Bet with its security technology, did not pick up on the fraud and cheating scandal.
FWIW IMO online poker will never be legit. So long as they layer the companies to obfuscate ownership and find a reputable person or two to apply for licenses and such, those in the know will have no problem getting approval from the licensing authority so long as those bodies are also motivated by cash flow from tax or licensing revenue.
For those who don't already know this, this is how big business works and will continue to work as long as we let them. They get away with it by obfuscation and making good with the regulators in some fashion when they are found out; just like scumbags operating FTP outright stole player funds, lived the high life and got away with it. The number of people FTP had in common with Pokerstars and their shared payment processors is as sickening as UP using Iovation.
Go try to figure out exactly who owns and operates UP.
So we have what looks to many like UB's old software and Iovation working security in the background. Really!?
Last edited by 3ozBacardi; 05-09-2013 at 01:15 AM.