Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2013, 12:06 PM   #1
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,387
Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB (Ultimate Poker drops Iovation 5/9)

I have noticed some posts around about the use of Iovation for age and identity verification at UltimatePoker, and the connection between Iovation and UB. I feel that there may be reason to bring this to the attention of the Nevada Gaming Control Board, but I don't have enough information about the connection. Please post here any details you know about the staff, owners and origins of Iovation, and the connections to UB so I can have the facts at hand to make an informed inquiry with the NGCB. If the info is sensitive, PM me instead.

Mod edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dax @UltimatePoker View Post
As of late Thursday night, May 9th, Ultimate Poker discontinued the use of all services from Iovation. We understand that there were concerns among some of our customers, we hope this makes our players feel more comfortable.

Last edited by Professionalpoker; 05-11-2013 at 06:55 PM.
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:52 PM   #2
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
otatop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,772
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Iovation's Leadership Team page has Greg Pierson and Jon Karl as the first two listed, and this site has a pretty good rundown of how those 2 founded UB.

Not sure how great a source gamblingsites.com is, though.
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #3
leconnaisseur
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,092
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Ty for doing something as a pre-emptive strike.

I was really sad to see all the cheerleaders in the new UP thread dismiss that crucial info.
leconnaisseur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:40 PM   #4
sparhawk36
stranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Here are the quotes from Dax in the main thread which explained the relationship between UP and Iovation.


Apologies. IOVation is our age/identity verification software. You're right though, that message needs to be a bit more friendly.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=124

IOVation has zero access to our software, our database, our hands, our company, our location. We send them a "packet" of information (actually through another vendor called Verifi) that contains a player's SSN/Name/Address/DOB and they tell us yes, no, or maybe so. If we get a Maybe So - we'll need to see a scan of your ID. No means you're using a deceased ID or they found that you're actually only 13 years old.


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=134


Sorry for the delay. Things have been pretty hectic today, as you can imagine. Way more response than we expected - we're thrilled (and thrilled you're thrilled, and thrilled you're thrilled we're thrilled you're thrilled).

IOVation is licensed by Nevada to be a vendor, and if that changes, we'll change. The Gaming Commission pulls apart your life in one of those arduous and thorough processes I know of.

Again, (and I'm sure I'll be saying this a lot), we have zero connection with Ultimate Bet. We have no people, no software, no tools that they used. In fact - our software has been *deeply* rooted by the lab and by the Gaming Commission. We're proud of our software and our people.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=383

i only looked through the first 500 posts. there was more information after the first 500.
sparhawk36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 02:55 PM   #5
dealace1
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 404
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Since the founder of Iovation used his software to create a method to steal money from players in the past I would never willingly use a site that used them as a resource. Having the word Ultimate in your name and using Greg Pierson as a resource is a huge red flag. What next, sign Joe Sebok as a pro?
dealace1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #6
DaycareInferno
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DaycareInferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,279
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think for most people its not so much that they consider it a risk as much as they don't want any of their money indirectly lining the pockets of former UB scumbags.
DaycareInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #7
SwoopAE
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SwoopAE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I AM CAPITAO
Posts: 18,134
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Sounds like the connection does need to be brought up, nobody directly involved in the UB/FTP scandals should be allowed any part of legal online poker in the US
SwoopAE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 04:25 PM   #8
CYTHERIA
centurion
 
CYTHERIA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in the shower
Posts: 100
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Sounds like the connection does need to be brought up, nobody directly involved in the UB/FTP scandals should be allowed any part of legal online poker in the US
and outside of the US
CYTHERIA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 06:27 PM   #9
cero_z
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Medium stakes button-clicking
Posts: 3,270
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Sounds like the connection does need to be brought up, nobody directly involved in the UB/FTP scandals should be allowed any part of legal online poker in the US
this
cero_z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 07:03 PM   #10
Pokeraddict
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: @john_mehaffey
Posts: 9,764
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

I have been on the fence about bringing this out for a while in an article but didn't want to drag Ultimate Poker into it but there is probably no other way to discuss it or get rid of Iovation without it.

Scott Tom (indicted former Cereus owner) threatened to get me blacklisted from online poker for exposing him at 2+2 years ago. It was not long after that threat that I ended up in the negative database at Iovation which led to massive hassles in playing US online poker. My AP account was never closed even though Iovation told other rooms I charged back at AP and AP was the one that reported the negative info.

In addition to not wanting people that may have been a part of UB to make money off of this their DB is tainted and should not be trusted by anyone IMO, even if I was the only person (doubtful) that is the victim of a dishonest abuse of Iovation to revenge them.

FWIW I had no ID verification hassle at UP though.

Last edited by Pokeraddict; 05-08-2013 at 07:17 PM.
Pokeraddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 07:28 PM   #11
Reefer A friend
enthusiast
 
Reefer A friend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Relax Play Live
Posts: 89
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankees1927 View Post
Hey guys lets keep the discussion goin and lets get some of our hard earned money back.. I don't want to beat a dead horse but call JASON COWLY: DOJ (212)637-2479
till he is sick of hearing from us and something is done. He's easy to talk too and he basically said nobody ever asks about ub/ap funds that's a main reason its on the back burner!!!! And as far as the UB "pros" go, they absolutely are in the wrong some of them,and I have been exchanging emails with Brad Booth who got screwed a couple hundred thousand and I asked him if he knew anything about Hellmuth and UB here is his response to that:

Brad Booth
May 1 (6 days ago)
Not to sure how I can help homie - all I can say... Is hellmuth and crew are about to get paid again from a company called iovation --- they built the company with cheating funds when at UB... And now are working with the new site ultimate poker..... It's ****ing gross

Sent from my iPhone
This was posted in the Cereus thread, not sure if real but thought it was worth quoting in this thread.
Reefer A friend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #12
JustASpectator
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,076
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

_dave_ made a post in the Ultimate Poker thread that seemed to get little attention:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1702

Apparently, years ago the ultimatepoker.com URL was used by UB.

I'm in agreement with above sentiment that it would be silly to assume that superusing is being done via the link to Iovation, but rather there is certainly a bad taste in my mouth that Greg Pierson is still making money off of online poker players.
JustASpectator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #13
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 4,063
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

From http://calvinayre.com/2013/04/30/bus...l-money-race/:

Quote:
ULTIMATE WHOOPS?
Long before Tuesday’s launch, many players had questioned the wisdom of using the word ‘Ultimate’ in any new online poker venture, given the sordid history of the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal and that site’s post-Black Friday implosion. Then one of the first players to attempt to register at the Ultimate Poker site received a notice that said simply “IOVation Error.” IOVation, if you recall, is the company set up by Greg Pierson that provided Ultimate Bet’s software and created the ‘God mode’ that allowed Russ Hamilton and others to view their opponents’ hole cards.

Danek responded to these concerns on with the following: “IOVation has zero access to our software, our database, our hands, our company, our location. We send them a “packet” of information (actually through another vendor called Verifi) that contains a player’s SSN/Name/Address/DOB and they tell us yes, no, or maybe so.”
The connection to iovation came up in the first reply of the IP forum discussion thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...hread-1327117/

No one sniffed.

Definitely good on you, OP, for looking further into this.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #14
ElevenGrover
adept
 
ElevenGrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,037
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post

No one sniffed.
I wouldn't go that far, sometimes what's under the water is more interesting than what is above.
ElevenGrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 08:52 PM   #15
PokerXanadu
Commander X-2
 
PokerXanadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,387
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Lots of good info here - thanks! Keep it coming if there is more. I'll probably refer the NGCB to this thread as one source of relevant info should they initiate an investigation (so no snipes or snarl posts please).
PokerXanadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 09:15 PM   #16
JamesD816
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 994
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

So many reasons to pursue this and get this lowlife 100% out of Ultimate Poker.

1. These crooks should never make a dime off online poker again.
2. Can we 100% trust the security of Ultimate Poker if Greg is involved?
3. How will it look to other states when the crooks from unregulated online poker are involved directly in the infancy of legal online poker?

I know Ultimate Poker is in its infancy but it is shocking they let this happen. I bet there are more reasons others will post.
JamesD816 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 09:37 PM   #17
jjjjudas
grinder
 
jjjjudas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 654
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

It's funny how Iovation are affiliated with Ultimate Poker and people are flooding to put money onto the site. Once you see a site associate with those conmen, you choose to do it at your own risk. The fact Hellmuth is gonna get on board this is more sickening. When his rep just about escaped the mess of Ultimate Bet, to jump back into a company affiliated with his 'good buddy' Greg, just makes me wonder what he knew about what was going on behind the scenes years ago. How can this company with these shady characters get to exploit players again?! Unbelievable.
jjjjudas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #18
kutty
banned
 
kutty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,482
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Sounds like the connection does need to be brought up, nobody directly involved in the UB/FTP scandals should be allowed any part of legal online poker in the US
Yes but the new companies will all be douchy scumbags too. Anyone in the poker world who is somehow not a douchy scumbag is like a shimmering diamond is a massive sea of rough
kutty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 11:25 PM   #19
Kilowatt
enthusiast
 
Kilowatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 691
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

This is disgusting.

It especially bothers me that Ultimate Poker is giving our community the finger, basically telling us that they will continue using Iovation unless they lose their Nevada license.

How about showing some courtesy and appreciation to the community that is your player base?

So Paul Leggett gets hired at Ongame, and Iovation is providing security to the United States' first legal online poker room.

The more things change...
Kilowatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #20
3ozBacardi
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

I got censored on the Ultimate Poker support thread for posting the following. I didn't know this thread started.

I'm also looking into whether Marc J Falcone, as related to Fertitta Interactive (indirectly controls UP), might be related to the infamous Peter J Falcone.

https://www.iovation.com/company/board/

http://haleyspokerblog.blogspot.ca/2...ing-names.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by dealace1 View Post
Is it true that Iovation, the company that was used to fleece UB, is now involved in Ultimate Poker?
Iovation was one of the companies behind establishing Ultimate Bet (UB) and at least knew about the ‘god mode’ superuser(s) accounts, if not created that hole. You can find out more about Greg Pierson as a founder of Iovation and his knowledge of the super user accounts on Poker Fraud Alert Podcasts since Jan of 2013. Greg Pierson is still at Iovation`s helm and has long been regarded as scum. Ostensibly, Iovations role in relation to UB is the same as its current relationship to UP.

We'll learn more about Greg Pierson, Iovation and the UB scam when(if) Ultimate Beat is released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparhawk36 View Post
As has been stated several times in this tread. Iovation is one of only 2 companies licensed by the NVGB to provide age and identity verification. Iovation has no access to any player information, servers, software or any other part of the game itself. it is only used to verify that you are who you say you are and that you are over 21 years old. This is done by comparing your SS number, and the address you input to verifiable addresses for you in the database.
So we`re told anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
Actually Iovation is not licensed by the NGCB. They are a third-party vendor for the licensed service provider CAMS, LLC. I don't know the licensing investigation procedures used by the NGCB in the case of third-party vendors, but perhaps that is how the UB connection flew under the radar. Perhaps it should be brought to the attention of the NGCB. Here is their contact info:
http://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=24
Or, PM me with all the relevant info, connections, etc. and I'll do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinItAll View Post
Is there some player benefit to your inquiry/offer to help?
What are you afraid people might learn?

Last edited by 3ozBacardi; 05-09-2013 at 12:33 AM.
3ozBacardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 12:46 AM   #21
3ozBacardi
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

http://www.gamblingsites.com/bio/ultimatebet/
One of the main questions asked at the time is why Iovation, the online security company headed by Pierson, and which supplied Ultimate Bet with its security technology, did not pick up on the fraud and cheating scandal.

FWIW IMO online poker will never be legit. So long as they layer the companies to obfuscate ownership and find a reputable person or two to apply for licenses and such, those in the know will have no problem getting approval from the licensing authority so long as those bodies are also motivated by cash flow from tax or licensing revenue.

For those who don't already know this, this is how big business works and will continue to work as long as we let them. They get away with it by obfuscation and making good with the regulators in some fashion when they are found out; just like scumbags operating FTP outright stole player funds, lived the high life and got away with it. The number of people FTP had in common with Pokerstars and their shared payment processors is as sickening as UP using Iovation.

Go try to figure out exactly who owns and operates UP.

So we have what looks to many like UB's old software and Iovation working security in the background. Really!?

Last edited by 3ozBacardi; 05-09-2013 at 01:15 AM.
3ozBacardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:46 AM   #22
Czar Chasm
old hand
 
Czar Chasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,542
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Pretty outrageous. We need to boycott this site and wait for the next one.
Czar Chasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:46 AM   #23
bigsid
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 174
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

every AVENUE should be checked on this and any new sites.
bigsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:46 AM   #24
3ozBacardi
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Some resources to help those inclined figure out who owns/operates what:

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Nevad...103379082.aspx

http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/

http://www.reviewjournal.com/busines...ta-interactive

A change in the ownership structure of Fertitta Interactive was approved Thursday by the Nevada Gaming Commission, allowing Station Casinos to control the eventual launch of an online poker operation
Why was a change in ownership necessary before launch?
3ozBacardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 01:57 AM   #25
3ozBacardi
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsid View Post
every AVENUE should be checked on this and any new sites.
http://www.zuffainvestoralerts.org/lorenzo-fertitta/
http://www.global-mma.com/t5119-proo...-not-just-ties
3ozBacardi is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online