Sure it’s a fundamentally incorrect idea

How often do you think you flop a flush draw?

It’s like 12%

So 88% of the time you have a substandard draw , or TPWK, or trips WK

With a small pocket pair, you have to flop a set, and get action from other hands, which usually have equity against you

So 88% of the time with Axs you whiff

88% of the time with small pocket pairs you whiff


Needing 15-1 in implied odds to overcome a 88% whiff is pretty hard to do

Way easier to play HU and have more equity plus it’s easier to bluff and adjust against a single opponent

For years it was canon to get AKo aipf for 100bbs no matter what was going on….now not so much

With a pp, if you play it 5-ways, you are getting good immediate odds, so you don't need as much implied odds. A small pp plays poorly HU, because you don't know where you are at, have few draws to semibluff or float with, etc.

With a suited ace, you are trying to make first nuts to stack someone with a flush. That happens less frequently than a set and on later streets. You also make draws and can make a wheel, aces up, etc. Making a pair is not usually good and not easy to play.

If you watch the video I linked to, it explains why these play better multiway and suited connectors play better HU. With a suited connector 5-way, you lose big pots to flush over flush, as well to better straights, two pairs, and trips.

playing better doesnt = higher EV, playing better doesnt = higher equity

playing better means its easier to play. Ya no **** its easier to play a hand when you have the nuts or you are ahead and drawing at a full house.

I don't know if it is covered that much in the book, but playing multiway against bad players, it is valuable to make close to the nuts, so hands that do that go up in value. It is discussed in other GTO-oriented material, like the video I linked to.

Suited connectors may be OK multiway, but they are better to play HU or 3-way in situations where you are expected to have high cards. You can raise of 3! them, and then fire with 8-high or whatever with air or a semibluff, and when you hit, it is difficult to read. A hand like 55 does not play well that way, as you have few draws, and don't know if you are ahead.

So yes certain hands play better or worse multiway.

Going up in value, like higher EV than playing 2 or 3 handed?

I doubt it. I’d like to see that math on playing hands that whiff 88% of the time

Are there pictures in this book? I'm more into pictures.

If it whiffs 88% of the time, it is not a good hand to play HU, since difficult to play when you miss. If you play it 5-way, you put in 20% of the money and are 12% to hit. So 5-way, you don't need such big implied odds.

HU it doesn’t wiff 88% of the time. Your A is often live and usually your kicker is too

5 handed that’s not the case

Same thing goes for pocket pairs


Again you’re confusing difficulty with EV. You didn’t understand the difference between EV and equity so hopefully this clears something else up for you


Also with 12% to flop a FD, that’s when you flop 36% equity.

It’s not like you flop a flush. You’re literally hoping to flop a draw that completes about 1/3 of the time

I meant with a small pp discussing the immediate pot odds you get multiway. Sure, it is a marginal hand, and you would rather have JJ+/AK.

With Axs, you make other hands than flushes. If you are deep, the flushes are valuable because of what you can win from lower flushes. You frequently make literally the nuts. It is true you only make a flush about 4% of the time and you often need to see it through to the river. There are obviously other hands you can make than flushes with Axs. I am basing it partly on the Upswing video, which presumably is based on simulations and/or data, which says Axs plays better multiway. It was also conventional wisdom in both limit and no limit, Axs an pps were hands you could over call or over limp with in late position. Sure, Axs play better than small pps HU.

If you would watch the video I linked to, it explains somewhat why Axs plays better multiway. You also might watch the podcast in OP and read the book. Why comment on things you know nothing about?

Again I think you are misunderstanding the words you are using


How easy something is to play , is not the same as EV or the same as equity


Multi-way, Axs makes straights (that aren’t the nuts) and it makes the nuts. Trip Aces are going to be with bad kickers as will top pair

So you can make trips with your kicker or you can make a flush while over flushing someone

Anyway, if you have a video that discusses the EV of Axs multi-way, I’d love to watch that


Edit: I can ask the video makers to clarify this point for us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuDEYfc7nac

I posted this link ITT and another thread on this book. It explains why suited connectors play poorly multiway and less why pps and Axs play better multiway, which it maybe assumes is obvious. IMO this video is better than the book ITT for low stakes. It takes more of a GTO type approach, even though solvers don't work that well multiway, whereas this book takes an old school approach.

It seems pretty obvious why pps work better with good immediate odds, and I explained that. I am basing Axs partly on this video.

I mean for expected value, not easier to play. Sure it is easier to play 22 where you can mostly fold if you miss the set multiway, but it is also more profitable than playing it HU.

the video doesnt compare HU to multiway in the manner in which we are discussing. Youll have to find someone comparing the two before you can say what has more EV than the other. All of my studying and training in poker shows me that playing HU is higher EV than playing multiway and almost with everyhand

please feel free to post information comparing the two, not just saying one is easier or harder

Loose 1/3 or whatever games with 5-way etc. pots are obviously more profitable for the same stakes as tougher games with HU and 3-way pots. Maybe theoretically HU pots are more profitable. You make adjustments to multiway pots, and one of them is certain hands like pps and Axs go up in value and others like 98s and KJo go down in value. Saying any hand plays better HU is irrelevant and is correct only in maybe a theoretical sense.

We aren’t talking about that. We are talking about the EV of hands versus one other player compared to versus 4 other players or 3 other players. Everything else is the same. If you start changing the variables then you change what we are discussing and I’m only interesting in discussing the information relayed in the previous sentence.

Again we are discussing EV. You have to make a theoretical observation since most time Axs and the PPs whiff multi-way and have to check fold.

That's correct that you usually need to fold multiway with small pps and Axs. You can't just play AA. The video I linked to indicates they go up in value multiway and unsuited high card hands and suited connectors/gappers go down in value. The example they gave is that when a suited connector makes a flush it may lose a lot of money to a higher flush, with so many playing marginal suited cards. Therefore, it is valuable to have Axs, which wins big pots flush over flush. Obviously, you aren't just flush mining with Axs like you might set mine.

Lot of low IQ poker players in here. Before you respond here are my credentials (I know you have none).



I do plan on buying and going through this book. Will report back with a high IQ report (don't listen to anyone in this thread..... trust me bro).

Thank you and look forward to the high IQ report.

would like to hear your thoughts

LFG! This is the attitude we deserve and need

awaiting review

I think the term you are looking for is equity realization.

It is more than just knowing what your EV is in a hand, it is important to understand how easy/hard it is to realize that EV.

Ok, but low level loose games are much more likely to see multiway pots more often than tougher games. By definition of those being worse players it is also easier to avoid the downsides of certain hands (such as hitting a flush with suited connectors against a bigger flush). Those variables all go into the implied odds calculations.

You are technically correct that certain hands play better heads up versus multiway, but when looking at just this factor, the skill of the other players cannot be completely ignored because the skill of the other players also determines how often pots are heads up versus multiway.