just the second coming of Girah, they obv couldn't know he's a scum.

Not sure if already posted but here is his GG tourney graph. Looks beautiful

Probably cheated his way to the top of COD too if he's good with computers/programming stuff like with poker.

Why isn't this actually a thing? I remember stars had turbo tables, why can't they make super turbo anti-solver tables? Or any site? Hello?

This would actually help, at least till computers got more powerful.

I haven't thought more than 5 secs about a decision in years. **** these tankers these days.

Not very intelligent comments imo.

Sure there will be less tables.

But the tables running will see way more hands per hour.

Won't affect sites bottom line much imo.

Two reasons mentioned in the thread.

It kills mutitabling. Game volume on sites would get destroyed overnight.

The average rec having a few beers playing a bit of poker doesn't want to feel under pressure to make a snap decision every 5 seconds.

The problem with lowering the time banks is that cheaters actually would be rewarded. If they using this kind of software where it shows instantly the solution, then if legit players are even denied to think a bit, we are just making cheaters edge bigger.
I definately think something should be done, we cannot just go ahead as if nothing happened. RTA is a real threat for poker. And the problem is that as years pass, the threat is gonna be just bigger and bigger.
We need live surveyance for winning players while playing. And we need to develope a way to do it as best as we can.
So guys, lets focus and think. It is sad guys because i love it, but playing naked at home should be over😂

Looks like mods removed the post with two links to an AI forum as well as a question posted on Reddit.

I think its worth noticing, that people are willing to pay up to 70k for RTA based on Monker. If you are willing to pay that much, what stakes are you going to play or are already playing at?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../#post56518748

Why would they have removed the post? That seems a very odd decision. Surely the community deserves to be aware of what is going on out there?

Providing links to show the scale of cheating surely is massively relevant to this thread.

Winner!

Make all players playing HS (1k+) poker (all formats and games) play on a webcam at all times - similar to a camera picking up holecards in a televised game. Webcam records kept like HH records, not accessible to the public, nor other players at the table.

Yes you will almost definitely lose a headcount on recs, however that is, imo, worth the cost of integrity that thereby futureproofs the platform.

Far from a perfect science, I know. However, this would be a huge step forward. How inconvenienced would you feel always being on webcam whilst playing, knowing that every other player is under the same supervision to keep you safe from RTA? A bit I'm sure. But is that worth the cost of the games integrity? Absolutely.

Side note that other platforms, namely chess, have already undertaken similar protocols along these lines already.

ton of delusional and wishful thinking in this thread

none of the suggested “fixes” would stop a dedicated cheater and only serve to dry up games further

I dont believe there is an effective way to avoid the cheating part of "professional groups" in online poker without harm the game totally and make so much unconvinience that eventualy it will shut down the game completely , I mean even with cameras what stop me to put a guy on the next room solve the hand rail my hand real time and tap me one time with a macine that I have in my shoe if i must check two times if I must bet 1/3 pot or... you get the point, to cheat in poker needs already to do some things and I believe this changes will remove many guys for the game and the cheaters will fightback in a very short time. The only reason pokerstars will do this is to pretend that the games are safe if so much noise will happen until the next thing will be revealed (not happened but revealed).

You could actually very easy implement it so that only high volume winning players have to do it, thus it wont hurt recs

So can I rent a whales account for 5 days ?

Don't need it's needed to make everyone play with cams.

Site can just force player(reg) to play on webcam for their security team after he has been playing certain amount of hands on HS, then they can compare his hh, playing style with previous play, and repeat it after some time.

It's not that hard, I've done that on Poker king asia site when my accs were locked for investigation, played 10k hands streaming for them and after few days they unlocked my money.
regulated site probably have even more data on our play than apps do so it's should make it even easier.

Agreed. It seems some changes would just diminish the playability and make the games less popular.

I think it's too much of a larger player pool on all the sites at 1k and higher of recs and regs to warrant a thing like this because of a few 'criminals'. Maybe at 200-400 on stars and on the gg 200k games. It's just going in a surveillance society mode because of a few wrongdoers. Feels bad.

That just promotes cheating instead of raising awareness for the problem. The pokersites already know of those places. And it has nothing to do with those webbased learning tools. Actually not directly but of course they are 'related' because they all use the solver algorithms.

There's only a handful of regs that play these games. Even on stars imo the player pool is small enough where this can easily be enforced. Key word is "can be" as ultimately it's really up to the sites. There's no foolproof way to determining whether a player is using RTA or not, however, playing on webcam certainly makes it more way more difficult to cheat and the more we disincentivize cheating, the better.

Anyone rooting for making online poker harder to play than it is now is probably too obsessed with the game.

I think longterm cheating is unavoidable, easy to do, very very low risk and very high reward. Worst thing basically getting funds confiscated and cheaters probably keep low amount BI's anyway on the account and reward is nice, printing sick money even when cheating super smart and lower stakes not like that dumb case, who the **** would even cheat with roommates lol, would say that Fedor is whale in cheating, but you can be gto in cheating too, mixing in bad plays, some days would think, *** it I play this sess with my own brains or have a stoploss lmao, now you can use RNG for 2 purposes, "will i dreammachine hand or not, If i roll 75 or higher I won't dreammachine this hand, and then use RNG for mixing xDD , mix stakes and mix sites, you could do a challenge where you grind it up from the lower so it wouldnt be suspicious if you move up, take like dno 7 months in 200z and then some fridays cheat in 500z pools or whatever, take like longer time so it could be done super undetectable and still making alot of money and just running under the radar + you know you basically "can't lose" so variance free, no stress and when you get caught no jail time, no nothing, So if you have even a tiny bit of sociopathic traits and you are in some country with very bad conditions and low salaries why the fk you wouldn try to do that.

Sites dont care too much because they want the games be running, only pros or people who make money from that game care, recs dont care too, they dont understand nothing about this industry, I have played live with so many recs for years and discuss how they think about poker its unreal, they dump some cash here and there for 10 years straight and dont know what is gto, what is dreammachine, they do know rake but they dont know how much it affects or when its unbeatable etc.. probably in the future there will be less whales/recs but there always be some...

Imo it would go something like this: bigger games dry up, slowly, but they will occasionally still run when some guys want to battle who know each other etc or some whale wants to have a fun over long time, like few times a year or dno, 1k 2k 5k would run rarely, 500z would dry up even more and run rarely, 200z would be the new 500z and it wouldnt even run 24/7 etc. some regs would silently agree to RTA and the good good regs who still go legit would turn into "bad regs", the bad regs would turn into complete fish and the rec fish and whales be still the same. winrates even lower, some people decide its not worth it etc..

Everyone soon will be running 1755 sims on all position and use some software or go the noob Fedor manually route... then security will catch up on those noob cheaters, the mousmovement and timing stuff but, when time goes by the dreammachines get better too, so basically best RTA will be the best player. At the same time when they cheat they obv study and when you grind alot you will memorize it -> you will automatically be better player yourself too and can grind live with sicko winrates on the side etc.

Obv it wont happen overnight or in few upcoming months, but slowly but surely, just a little step every month to this direction. basically online would turn into new simple gto trainer and good games would be only live games and even those would get alot of tougher.

edit: EVEN if there would be real prison times for this, lets say you cheat and make 500k, get 400k off the site and then you get, what 7 months? I dont know, people are trying to smuggle 200k worth of coke in facing 10-15 in prison, or some cases even life if its multiple strikes, wouldnt it be still gto to have like low prison time vs up to millions profit?


it is unstobbale.

after thinking about this, bout to go run some sims (jk)


and I truly think some people who currently play 200+ are considering going that route until there is some money in the ecosystem, so probably after these recent threads cheating will get better, more widespread and harder to detect. you can start by one most common or harder spot for you like BB vs BTN SRP has those solves go from there, then later when you solved more or get better at cheating add BTN vs BB SRp then BTN vs BB 3bp etc etc, basically if my fishreg brain could think about how to do it then every decent player who doesnt give a fk can do it even better. rip games are dead for real now.

If we don't need to stick specifically to NL holdem, a quite interesting possibility in my opinion is to make a new version of poker game. We know approximately how the computational power growths with our technological progress. Therefore, we can now predict how complex game do we need that it will survive next 50/100 years.

I think another point to discuss is the fact that regulated sites will probably only invest in game integrity as much as is required by regulatory agencies, specially when this news effects regs more than recs tbh (or is at least more common knowledge to regs) and as long as they still have recs coming back I don't see why they would allocate more money unless required. So the focus should be on the regulators not the actual sites. i dont know much about who runs and funds the regulatory companies but i'd take a guess that it can be greatly influenced by money, regardless of who runs them. So again we as an active poker community need to look out for each other and not hope for some regulatory agency, than can be corrupted, to look out for us. Idk i hope i am wrong in my assumptions and that poker sites see the long term loss of letting these things get out of hand but I think it starts with putting some focus on regulators.

nobody is claiming that webcams won’t make cheating in this manner more difficult

what I am saying is that the webcam method as people have described is extremely impractical

do you plan on instabanning people for using phone during a hand?

if only winning regs get the webcam treatment - what does this mean for players that don’t?

if it takes tens of thousands of hands to determine win rate - how can you possibly know someone isn’t cheating by watching them play for a couple hours?