Hey Paint

Because you are in the mode of transparency can you break down these numbers accurately please?

I appreciate you have made things pretty clear but I have followed the story closely and I can see you have used the $100k figure and want to have a look at the exact numbers the challenge cost you for my own summary of the whole issue.

Thanks

Honestly, probably all good points you are bringing up, but my hunch is OP torpedoed his chances by lying to everyone - including the all important arbitrator - about a very key point, It likely cast doubt on basically anything else he had to say on his own behalf, and he was sunk. To his credit, he's since admitted to the attempt at deception, but the damage was likely done.

the arb panel has to get outed, OP got scammed lmao. how the fook did they get you to pay the side bet? ��

The Arbitrators' ruling did not order him to pay out the side bet. He, from community pressure after he admitted to using the DB, did that on his own accord.

he got bullied. any I think people with legal advice woulda told him to tell everyone to **** off, keep his money and wait to be sued if thats what they want.

Do you guys remember galfond ruling that its ok for dnegs to time down every hand in the HU match because doug was limping?

you cant trust arbitrators to be correct, and if you cant appeal then why would you risk everything with one decision!

also lying doesnt mean he is wrong about the case, thats a ridiculous standard

Think when you intentionally lie and impede the arbitrators decision making you forfeit the ability to be disappointed by the ruling and making long threads about it weeks after it happened

I’d like to know how the panel was selected. Did Paint not have any input?

That certainly wasn't the only factor, but if you choose an arbitrator to listen fairly to both sides and determine who is right and/or telling the truth, and you come out of the gate lying about a key piece...well let's just say that sure doesn't help your case.

He nominated several of them and agreed to all of them. Also, they did a great job. There isn't going to be much pushback anymore against Paint, most people have given up on him. He was actually banned from the discord server that he had his blog in, and which served as the center for this HU challenge, because he refused to stop lying and gaslighting everyone about this incident.

it doesnt matter what you think, it matters what they agreed upon when they agreed to the arbitration. If it doesn't say exactly what you mentioned above THEN youre not going to be able to just throw it in there because you want to.

ive had people lie in multiple court cases and the judges just look at them and move on. youre saying it doesnt help but youre arguing that it should tank the case.


So if you lie during an arbitration, you lose the case? so the other side only has to convince the judge that youre lying and then win? I dont think so

I regged between 500nl-2000nl and Brandon played 2000nl-10000nl is my understanding. But we play in different pools so I don't know exactly.

So the actual total loss on the challenge was about three months of my time and just over $30,000.

$10,000 sidebet
$19,500 personally refunded DQ bets
>$1000 rake

The loss because of arbitration decision was

$44,800 refunded to Brandon
$25,000 refunded on xbooks

I was owed money at the time of arbitration, as all my xbooks were underwater including with Brandon

Brandon owed me just over $3,000
Other bets I was owed approx $8,000

This money was all in escrow, but I consider it to have been lost as a result of arb

EV is more vague, I probably had an edge in the challenge but it's difficult to calculate. The sidebet, however, would've almost certainly gone my way had we played to a conclusion, which itself was a 20k swing (10k from each).

All in all, I think the 100k+ number is a fair analysis, but an exact number is hard to come by and somewhat up to interpretation.

Brandon recommended two, one volunteered, and I gave a list of recommendations to which Brandon accepted two more. I then solicited their services on discord. I rushed the selection process and didn't research enough. A few had past relationships with Brandon that I learned about after the fact.

Tldr I'm really ***** dumb.

I think your take on the situation is correct.



It's my belief that arbitration decided to rule based on the fact we said we didn't use the DB at all. Which I think is bad judgement. But some people think it was fine so w/e I guess. I mostly don't want to be seen as a cheater. I'm never getting any money back obv

I'm in this discord and the circled comment was directed at someone else who specifically brought up JW and who had recently dropped back down to 100NL.

This

Unfortunately the way I understand it is that if you agree to binding arbitration, courts will generally defer to the arbitration decision, in whatever manner that decision was decided. There’s no real avenue to contest arbitration decisions in court so I doubt contesting the arbitration would have been fruitful.

I am not a lawyer though.

Pretty shocking that Brandon goaded you into this challenge then cried like a bitch once he lost and somehow got his money back by whining. Disgusting.

This is a good lesson against doing hu challenges against regs (non recs like airball or negreanu go ham)

sure it might feel good to defeat someone you dont like but even if you win you probably woulda won more just playing normal games. and then you gotta deal with this bullshit when you do win some of the time.

Its a bit different if you cant get action tho I dont know your situation.

I appreciate you come to the conclusion that an exact number is hard to come to.

I could be missing something obvious but why was the $10k sidebet forfeited? I thought the arb ruling implied the entire match (and related bet) was void, so the initial $10k stake got returned to you?

Hi, in the aftermath of this I felt really **** about the whole thing and asked the arb panel to rule whether or not I should pay out the sidebet as well, and the unanimously agreed I should. I understand this makes me a total whale, but I was not in a good mental state after everything came down.

Aren't you the guy who helped write Brandon's submission to arb?

In many jurisdictions you basically need to attempt to go to arbitration in civil cases before going into the court system, and if you don't they'll basically throw your case out for "why are you wasting our time and money instead of going to arbitration gtfo" reasons, so shrugemoji

Hey sir, we can’t review your case because you haven’t gone to arbitration with 5 people that have a bias opinion against your case with no evidence of cheating.

Yup makes sense.

This whole thing is literally sickening.

Edit: Op essentially takes the weaker line here and pays everyone out because he submits to the arbs 5 Person decision that he may not have been honest about a 6k hand sample that was available to him that is two years old.

If it was 6k hands, 200k hands or 2 million hands it would make 0 difference. Heads up is how effectively you can apply gto and exploit your opponent, if your opponent is playing the same as he did 2 years ago he not only deserves to be exploited but deserves to get crushed.

It’s actually so tilting that OP thinks by paying everyone out it will make his situation better, it won’t. Everyone wins but you. Accept the arbs descision but don’t go and ask them it’s a good idea to pay every man and their dog trying to angle your situation? Your answer is going to be the same as the arbs descision.

Yes pay everyone back, admit your a massive liar, tell the worlds you cheated someone out of knowing their button raise size preflop coached by an absolute banana that had no idea how to even coach heads up.

Absolute joke.