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Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament

08-04-2022 , 10:10 PM
https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...mid-tournament

And

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2022/...-gtd-41798.htm

Summary: They had a 250k guarantee for an mtt with 12 starting flights and only had $27k of entrants in the first 4 flights. So they decided to cancel the rest of the flights and cancel the guarantee and let the first 4 flights finish with no guarantee. Facing the social media backlash, they decided to refund the 27k back to the players, but let them play for a free 27k and still cancel flights 5-12, while adding 50k to another random tourny tbd.

I wonder if they can get successfully sued. "250k Guarantee (unless we have to pay it)", seems like fraud to me, but I'm not a lawyer.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-04-2022 , 11:02 PM
The appology video is great

We made the decision to cancel it. Was it the right decision? No…
Ryan and Nick told me this wouldn’t play well, which I guess I never considered

So what we did was wrong but we’re gonna make it right, without paying the guarantee obviously…

Down the road we’re gonna add 50K to a tournament, maybe in September, down the road. But again, definitely not paying the guarantee
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 08:48 AM
Poker players shouldn't play another tournament here for a good 5 years. Hustler: "If we're going to lose alot of money, we're lying about the tournament being guaranteed. We're are gangsters. You are peasants. We'll do whatever we please."
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:02 AM
Why does every room manager come off as the most clueless person in the entire poker room?

I don’t think they know what the word “guarantee” means.

Also why don’t live guarantees require a min of number of entrants like online?

Then this sort of thing could have been avoided.

Like under 250k guarantee put something like (min 500 entrants) so they cap the overlay.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerEthics
Why does every room manager come off as the most clueless person in the entire poker room?

I don’t think they know what the word “guarantee” means.

Also why don’t live guarantees require a min of number of entrants like online?

Then this sort of thing could have been avoided.

Like under 250k guarantee put something like (min 500 entrants) so they cap the overlay.

I saw a live tourney in the UK advertised as an "unconditional guarantee" - I pointed out that the word guarantee already includes the statement unconditional. But it was wasted on management. They are just copying others that do it with success. I don't know I've ever played a tourney for just the value of the guarantee, but maybe that's just me.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecreationalPlayer
I saw a live tourney in the UK advertised as an "unconditional guarantee" - I pointed out that the word guarantee already includes the statement unconditional. But it was wasted on management. They are just copying others that do it with success. I don't know I've ever played a tourney for just the value of the guarantee, but maybe that's just me.
Sorry, but you read like a skit from Monty Python.

"It was wasted on management. They are just copying others that do it with success".

OMG, the Horror
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerEthics
Why does every room manager come off as the most clueless person in the entire poker room?

I don’t think they know what the word “guarantee” means.

Also why don’t live guarantees require a min of number of entrants like online?

Then this sort of thing could have been avoided.

Like under 250k guarantee put something like (min 500 entrants) so they cap the overlay.
.... because the job requirements for managing a live poker room are not set with the creativity or intelligence bar set too high. (Not to say there are no intelligent, creative poker room managers, just it's not required nor rewarded.)

The issue of posting a minimum number of players is not a new issue, I recall the Bellagio having the same issue at least 20 years ago ....

I also think you way overestimate the mindfulness and awareness at the lowest level of the rest of the people in the poker room.

(Fwiw, you seem you would be overqualified for the room manager position.)
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerEthics
Also why don’t live guarantees require a min of number of entrants like online?

Then this sort of thing could have been avoided.
Players don't like the "*if xxx in buy-ins is reached" fine print. We've had NVG threads complaining about exactly that in the past.

No idea if Hustler had the right to just cancel the guarantee/tournament. Unfortunately, I think other casinos that did stuff like that in the past were legally allowed to do so.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecreationalPlayer
I saw a live tourney in the UK advertised as an "unconditional guarantee" - I pointed out that the word guarantee already includes the statement unconditional. But it was wasted on management. They are just copying others that do it with success. I don't know I've ever played a tourney for just the value of the guarantee, but maybe that's just me.
The best ones in the UK were those for something like a £50 buyin which casinos would advertise as "£3k guarantee" with the small print "min 60 runners", so they're guaranteeing nothing at all. Pretty commonplace back in the day, but hey, given the standard of play nobody could do maths back then so every little helps
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 11:01 AM
Oh they're using that definition of Hustler!
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerEthics
Why does every room manager come off as the most clueless person in the entire poker room?

I don’t think they know what the word “guarantee” means.

Also why don’t live guarantees require a min of number of entrants like online?

Then this sort of thing could have been avoided.

Like under 250k guarantee put something like (min 500 entrants) so they cap the overlay.
To be fair, most casino management in general is incompetent.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 12:00 PM





From earlier in the day before the video anouncement of them making changes Nick making it clear they are seperate from hustler casino
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 12:15 PM
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2022/...er-c-41805.htm

Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreadLightly





From earlier in the day before the video anouncement of them making changes Nick making it clear they are seperate from hustler casino
They may be a separate company but if they choose to continue doing business with them after this then it's on them as well.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten5x
I wonder if they can get successfully sued. "250k Guarantee (unless we have to pay it)", seems like fraud to me, but I'm not a lawyer.
The structure sheet also said “we reserve the right to cancel” so they’re likely fine.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 05:06 PM
I see Nit is able to remain cool and composed under pressure. I imagine that’s one of the things they teach you at his real estate college.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneCrazyDuck
The structure sheet also said “we reserve the right to cancel” so they’re likely fine.
I went on a little rabbit hole. From the structure sheet: https://www.hustlercasino.com/wp-con...-structure.pdf

Quote:
Hustler Casino reserves the right to revise, suspend, cancel, or modify tournaments at its sole discretion and without prior notice within the parameters of GEGA-002612
I tried to look up GEGA-002612, but I'm having trouble finding it. The first 4 characters ("GEGA") are cardroom specific (GEGA=Hustler). From here: https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/cardroomlist , under Hustler, you can click "Games" or "Gaming Activities," and it appears to list all the current GEGA things they filed, but I can't find "GEGA-002612" (although it's referenced). I seriously can see no possible way that it's legal for a casino to run a "guaranteed prize pool tournament" all the way up to 1 minute before registration closes, and then just cancel it solely because they'd have to pay the guarantee. That makes literally no sense. That example is just a slight extension of what happened.

They do talk about guaranteed tournaments though on page 90 of gaming activities:

Quote:
Tournament Prize Amounts & Source of Funds
The prizes will be the cumulative amount of buy-ins, re-buys, and add-ons. The prizes may also
be guaranteed meaning Hustler Casino will make-up any shortfall in case there are not enough
buy-ins.
If there is not enough cash to cover the guaranteed prize amount, Hustler Casino will
fund the difference.
I don't see a clause where they can just cancel the "guarantee" instead of making up the shortfall. They also state elsewhere that they don't allow structure modifications after the tournament start. Once people have purchased something, you can't change it on them for no reason. It's significantly different to cancel a guaranteed tournament the day before it starts and cancel it after people have already paid and played for a day of it. These kinds of activities are almost universally considered fraud without extenuating circumstances.

Last edited by Ten5x; 08-05-2022 at 07:51 PM.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten5x
I seriously can see no possible way that it's legal for a casino to run a "guaranteed prize pool tournament" all the way up to 1 minute before registration closes, and then just cancel it solely because they'd have to pay the guarantee. That makes literally no sense. That example is just a slight extension of what happened.
There’s a way to find out about that. Maybe Gzesh can provide you with the name of an attorney with experience in gaming who might be interested in the case.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
Players don't like the "*if xxx in buy-ins is reached" fine print. We've had NVG threads complaining about exactly that in the past.

No idea if Hustler had the right to just cancel the guarantee/tournament. Unfortunately, I think other casinos that did stuff like that in the past were legally allowed to do so.
I’m sure they like having it canceled mid tournament less

They should change their tune if it helps keep guarantees up

Main benefit of a guarantee is to create worthwhile prize pools. Not hoping there’s a tornado and no one but you can show up

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 08-05-2022 at 08:49 PM.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 09:38 PM
I was always under the impression that a room could cancel a guaranteed tournament as long as the cards hadn't been dealt.

But once they've had multiple flights of people come out, pay for hotel rooms and play, and others traveling to play the other flights that were cancelled (after multiple flights already concluded) I can't see how they can just wiggle out of this without paying the 250K guarantee.

Would love to have some gaming legal experts chime in on this situation. Pretty scummy move by Hustler and their response to fix it seems to be too little.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-05-2022 , 11:00 PM
boycott time
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-06-2022 , 12:57 AM
Between this and the mgm scam what can you do.
Hustler Casino Faces Backlash For Canceling 0,000 Guaranteed Poker Event Mid-Tournament Quote
08-06-2022 , 03:28 AM
who is surprised these companies will do everything but actually present a semi profitable situation. let them rot, make them renegotiate on a global scale if they want our business
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