Same type of stuff is going on in chico network even at the lower stakes like 30$ hu sngs its sickening lol

Also, whatever OP's motives are, it's good that this is coming out. This type of thing has been happening for years. Stars has been tougher on cheaters than other sites (at least in HUSNGs and Spins, but I'd imagine probably in other areas too) so the cheaters go to the other sites. Every poker site needs to heavily invest in poker security and stay on top of the latest trends in order to keep this sort of cheating to a minimum.

360 degrees is only 2 dimensions. Doesn't stop crotch theory optimal second computer on your dick.

Interesting stuff to see how this actually works. But then again for quite a while anyone who has been playing 20bb hu poker and thinks he is getting a legit game has been delusional.

LOL how do the sites not catch these guys?

security must not give a **** anywhere but Stars.... unless i missed it i dont think he played on stars or maybe is banned already.

at least now he will be banned.... surely.... lol

Im sure they are setting aside millions and ready to fight to the death.

Something should also be done about guys like you who run staking stables

So, what happened in the end? I used to play vs. the vast majority of these guys up until like 2016. Wonder how far back the RTA went.

I thought I read somewhere on gypsyteam that a bunch of the russians from this group and guys from the bali group got banned on stars, but most are still active in places like party, and ipoker, acr, etc. or at least under different names.

Still, don't see how RTA could ever be properly monitored going forward, they are going to eventually find a way to bypass most detection software. It's going to turn out that the only way to properly monitor is to just compare stats and tendencies/GTO deviations, which will take a lot of man power ultimately.

Do people think the guys on stars are not also using stuff? Cmon guys....be realistic

I've played a few hu hypers on stars $60 - $1000 and some unexplained money just turned up in my Stars account. Is it possible these are reparations from some cheaters? Is there an easy way to check where money comes from on Stars?

A lot of high stakes hu players were banned this year on stars.

Like who?

It feels like there is no strong incentive for anyone to go after these guys even tho it is known who they are. The damage they do is spread across sites and players, so the sad realization is that these scammers have huge upside and very little downside.

Sorry, i wasn't specific enough. Not cash players, high stakes Hu sng hyper players.

This is a pretty well known fact by the community.

Im not an active sng player anymore so i don't know specific screen names.

I guess they won't say **** about it since it might draw a lot more attention about the issue and expose their bad security

what do you mean unexplained?
usually if its a refund for cheating or collusion stars will send a generic email which basically says:
recently we banned some ppl, we wont say who they are or what they did but we have credited you, since you were affected, $x. it shows as "admin credit" or something. there shouldn't be "unexplained" money, u can get a playing history audit to see when the balance went up and what the particulars was for the tx/s

What OP showed is nothing new, this is going on on EVERY poker site except pokerstars. Do the owners of those sites know? Well ALL OF THEM know, but they either ignore it, or even try to cover it, since bots generate lots of rake having at the same time the lowest winrates, since they don't adjust and play mostly a GTO approach.
I can guarantee you, this won't stop unless regs finally organize and do something about it. You can send as many letters as you won't, poker rooms don't care. They only way to make them move is to hurt their reputation, by making let's say a huge thread about each of them SEPARATELY. Showing to all the players concrete information about niknames of the cheaters etc etc.

There is basically no incentive for the sites to actively spend resources on this. and even if they did they will just come back under another account. With regards to communication there is also no incentive to do so as this will only confirm that there is activity of this sort on their site.

Imo the only reason stars ban some people is because they are 100% sure that there is someone else who will replace the liquidity loss form the botter. Smaller sites can't be so sure so why would they ban a player who is pretty much the perfect customer (never complains because they want to keep a low profile, always puts in good long consistent hours).

That's not to say stars always ban bots or catch them all. Some of these players are very smart and don't just blindly follow gto when they feel they can deviate for a bigger edge. Stuff like that makes it very difficult for stars to know for sure someone is using some aid

Many people say this was known for years, which is true, but there was never publicly available evidence like this... I wrote an email to 888 about the chvoka guy over a year ago. Nothing came out of it.

The postle thread has so much attention, but there is way way way more money beeing scammed out of people's wallet online.

The postle Story went to media, which put a lot of pressure on the casino. The same thing should happen with this evidence.

The press should notice this. Imagine if this is on TV, elaborated by someone. It will put way much more pressure on the sites then just random players complaining.

How did the postle thing went viral/ to the media. If someone knows someone they should take this to press.

These people have to go to jail for cyber fraud. It's beyond just breaking tos of the sites, it's clearly fraud and they can and should get prosecuted.

chicago joey needs to dive deep into this

One reason Stars doesn't want botters is that they are bad for their profits. As has been discussed plenty, players who consistently withdraw money from the site leave less money that would become rake, which means less profit for Stars. That makes them the opposite of the perfect customer, which is true for the other sites as well. The other sites would also like to get rid of them, but smaller sites can't or don't want to spend the resources to identify them.

Although I was in favor of this thread being restored so poker players are aware of it, I don't think it would be good for the future of online poker to have this publicized to the general public. If there were a "60 Minutes" piece on this as there was on the Potripper scandal, I think it would make it that much harder to get other US states to pass laws allowing online poker. This is important for the poker-playing community to know about, but I think it hurts the cause for the general public to be exposed to it.

I agree with what you are saying in part but what i meant was that stars can 'afford' to actively ban bots because they know that another reg will jump right into the lobby and service the fish and pay the rake. So for them its a no brainer to get the PR win for banning bots whilst also still maintaining liquidity in HUSNG lobbies.

Smaller sites on the other hand probably dont have a deep pool of regs that would just jump in to take the place of the regbot that plays 24/7 so ultimately they would rather get the rake paid then have a fish log off because a lobby was empty.

Finding these bots is incredibly easy imo the only thing that prevents them from getting rid of them is that they make them more money to have them there than not.

I may just not know the method you're thinking of to identify them, but it doesn't seem that easy to me. In the case shown in the video, the bot is in the form of giving advice to the player who is physically moving the mouse and clicking the buttons, so it's not like there are non-human movements to be detected. And by following the GTO advice, they are typically implementing a mixed strategy (betting, calling, etc., at certain frequencies selected randomly), so it's not like the patterns in certain situations will even be obvious. It seems pretty difficult to distinguish one of these players from a legit winning player, but I may be wrong. If you can describe what would make it incredibly easy, I'd be interesting in knowing how.

You have access to every hand and hole card, data on how the player does EVERYTHING within the client as well as all the data from the entire player pool on how people tend to play. Couple that with the ability to ask the player to complete more or less any kind of test you want where you can alter their client specifically so that any form of screen reading would become highly unreliable. If after doing all of that you can't tell if someone is playing completely unaided then maybe i am just over optimistic on how cathcing these guys is.

A site could also do what winamax didand request that a player comes and plays with them live. That seemed to route out at least 1 cheater and then they banned the other guy anyway because he was just too dubious even though he passed the live test.

This scam is about millions of dollars , this should be way more bigger than the postle scam . They should go in jail for this kind of criminal activity .