processing power has slowed down significantly as far as new hardware in computers though so I don't think real time GTO solvers will be available anytime soon, could have some decent approximations though

So why hasn't it flooded online poker and made the games unbeatable?

Think about it - it only takes 20-30 intelligent people in the world (out of the 7.6 billion people on earth) to get hold of/create some poker AI, load up many tables across various different networks, make the AI undetectable and set it to play. They could crush every single format, fleecing every human player who plays of their entire bankroll, and thus render the whole of online poker unbeatable.

Why aren't we seeing that? This is what we should be seeing, given that "it already came and went" according to you.

See the reply above.

I never claimed to be an expert. If you have a technical explanation, I'd like to hear it.

Because - as I have explained in various threads on this subject in the past - the poker-making decisions is not the hard part of making a poker bot. Making it undetectable is.

Improved computer security (sandboxing, especially on no-download clients, mobile devices, Win 10, etc.) is probably making it harder to detect bots using technical measures. Thus, hand history analysis appears to be becoming more important (in addition, HH analysis is going to be more useful to identify cases where a bot runs on one device, and then a human interacts with the poker software on a different device).

The moves of some sites - and potential new sites - to restrict hand history access is really scary for these reasons.

I wish this was true, but I have personal knowledge that it's not. They're out there, and they're even being advertised commercially (I'm not going to post the link for obvious reasons). They're being "justified" because a human has to decide whether to follow the suggested line, but it's cheating what ever way you decide to look at it.

With currently available processing power they can handle short stack/ limited position games in real time- but the rest is only one or two processor generations away.

there's no way 100bb 6max is one or two processor generations away

Can pokersite do anything beyond closing the account when an AI is detected? Suing etc?

The rules are different in different jurisdictions.

In some (Italy?) the sites are required to notify the regulator, who can then prosecute if they want.

we are the fremantle dockers. freo fat and slow. kick them in the balls and down they go.

Sites are fastly improving their securities lately so I am actually not that worried for the close future.
Regular winning players will probably have to give up more privacy and go through more trouble, but seriously, I'm willing to play butt naked with 10 webcams/micros surrounding me immediately if it means I will be able to play in a bot free environment.
And maybe some sites will start to exclude eastern european countries, which would set the bot problem back 5 years, allthough I'm not as hopeful on this one.

Seriously, the answer is ~ 10 years when we have true quantum computing. That machine will zip through every possible decision tree and output exact GTO solutions nearly instantly.

Also, it doesn't seem like very many people ITT are fully understanding the exponential advancement of technology. To start, the exact GTO solutions will be visible to the wearer of AR enabled glasses that only you will be able to see. Then, not long after that to eye-implants. Then direct mind interfaces. This is all technology that is being developed now, it's not science fiction or something.

exactly....the entire premise of this decades technological advancements is to make everything more integrated and connected. the entire world is moving towards this....to think that bots/solvers are gonna be limited to certain environments and not be a problem to the poker scene as a whole....is laughably naive.

likely less than 5 years

Online poker really is on it's last leg. It was a short, sweet road. The difference from when I started playing online (2003) to now, is absolutely insane. It feels like a freaking WASTELAND of poker players, it's sad. The environment is just crap, online. I'm coming from a USA standpoint, obv. But I can't imagine it being much different anywhere else. It's just a bunch of grinders, nits, the occasional fish on a heater, the occasional rec and the bad regs.

I just do not see it becoming better. It just, is what it is.

Live poker... it is alive and well all over the US. IT I believe, can still churn out significant winners.

Bots/GTO solvers have OWNED online poker. Period.

Start playing different games.

If bots have Hold'em figured out then try something else.

Devil's Advocate: Fish don't read.


Whether AI will doom online poker and when is a matter of definitions. And the question is not sufficiently well defined. For instance, just from numbers available off of PokerScout, you could plausibly make the argument that online poker has already been killed. That the observed declined have been due to AI is doubtful, but the case could be made.


A more immediate concern is whether online poker has any value to anyone who isn't well heeled and already an expert player across many poker variants. Aside from those with an intense academic interest in competitive games, I would say the opportunity-cost-adjusted answer to that is a resounding no, unfortunately.

I see this being the future of poker. Mixed games are more challenging and require you to be proficient at each game. Id love to see a televised mixed game. maybe BU announcing game type and actual dealer dealing it out. No wildcard games, just approved games.

I don't think some of you realize just how many people read this thread, LOL'd, and then just moved on to their day of poker.

O.. really?

You have the numbers on that you can share with us big guy?

Actually, I would like the numbers on how many scumbag cheats are going to look at, and participate in this thread to actively dismiss any legit concern about online pokers' dismal reality... so as not to "... Scare away new unskilled players with threads like this" ldo

The rooms are not logically arranged put a stop to it. Generate much cost in personnel (human material) and agree with the user above, open cam would have to be an obligation of the player.

Meanwhile it does not solve, live poker game go go.

You are scaring away potential new players or returning players. Do you realize that in the world of Chess they have been making threads like this one for 20 years now? "Now that chess is solved, what next?" and things of that sort. 20 years of threads. Is it solved? Not even remotely close. Is chess easier to solve than cash game NLHE? Yes. Yes it is.

The fact that you think someone can just work with a solver for a while and then sit down to their session and auto profit means you really don't understand what you're talking about whatsoever. The game is not being killed by AI nor is it in any jeopardy of dying off. At all. The fact of the matter is that a group of you on these forums who never got good enough at the online game to profit keep creating threads like this about how poker's dead, there's no money in the game, everyone's solid, etc. and it's simply all bs. You're just whining like losing players have always whined and your flavor of the week is Solvers this time. Next it will be HUDs. Then HH's. If you spent all of this time studying, playing, and working on your game you would most definitely be much, much better than you are right now. That's just a fact.

Gto assumes you play gto , what if i adapt by just betting good hands vs gto bot? The bot will keep calling asuming my range is well balanced when its not...

Does bots also read a hud and interpret stats? Or they just play gto?
If bots can adapt to explotative players then yes we are doomed

Online poker will end up as battle of the best bots, when people stop playing once online against the bots becomes unbeatable.

That will leave online poker as a private battle between the bot programmers, where they see who can programme the best bot.

Then us mere humans can watch the bot battles, and learn, too late, how we should have played optimum poker.

By the time you have finished reading this, this will have taken place.

I am so glad to hear someone say this! I have done so in these forums as well.

I play almost all of my poker online, but I do play live from time to time and I don't like cell phones at the table at all.

I never have my phone on at the table, because it's a distraction. The big problem, or course, is that the more tech there is at the table, the easier it is to cheat.

I have played in local poker rooms where players at the same table have a relationship. At one time I was seated at the same starting table as two of my sons. At the same table I have seen a husband and wife, a guy and his (dealer) girlfriend, and other such combinations. If there is tech at the table, situations like this are collusion waiting to happen.

When the guy two seats to my left is furiously texting right after I fold, how do I know who, or what, he is texting? He could be typing "white shirt [me] does X with big pair in EP." What about headphones guy? He might be listening to music, or to instructions from a poker friend or coach.

If a collusion team was sophisticated it wouldn't be hard for the player to talk directly to the coach. Just wear a hidden microphone, be chatty and have a coded question for your coach somewhere in your word salad.

I understand that a poker room or casino isn't going to search everyone for bugs, but I don't think that it's too much to ask to have a "no cellphones/no headphones" rule at the table. The more money that's at stake the more necessary that becomes.

Frankly, if life-changing money* was on the line I would agree to be strip searched if I thought I would be protected from collusion or other electronic cheating.

----------

*For me, life-changing money would be something like a Heartland Poker Tour televised table. That kind of money goes a long way where I live.

haha epic post....if 2+2 had signatures you would totally use this