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Old 06-13-2012, 06:36 PM   #451
JCHAK
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

.

Last edited by JCHAK; 06-13-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:30 PM   #452
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Thumbs up Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

beating ivey hu to win a bracelet seems like a pretty decent way to silence ones critics. bravo sir
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:11 PM   #453
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by JCHAK View Post
Conversely you could make the argument that all the "sick live pros" are nothing more than fish on a heater. If Phil Ivey's or Phil Helmuth's lifetime achievements in the live arena are indicative of absolutley nothing in terms of absolute skill, then anyone can claim that any one pro's success is completely based on dumb luck.

I'm actually sick and tired of the following:

Recognized NVG loved Pro wins a tourney: "It's 100% skill and they are God and this is evident in their 30 tourney wins"
Intelligent Avid Player/Pro wins a tourney: "Fish on heater, a monkey could win 10 tournies in a row, go play online 100,000,000 tournies and then talk to me"

It's the same canned responses every time. Even when a player has good explanations and rationalizations behind unconventional moves, people don't even want to hear it, axe is already in the car and they are out for blood. And quit comparing live MTT's to online MTT's; just by the fact that the sample size is miniscule relative to online MTT's, live mtt's are completely different in nature to online tournies.
Did you even read my post? I literally just said, the better a player is the more likely it is that they'll win live tournies. Quit making everything black and white, there's a continuum.

Succeeding over 1-2 years in the live arena doesn't necessarily mean you're a great player. It probably means you at least have a decent positive ROI in the games you're playing, but you might not be any better than half the other guys in the field. Succeeding over 5, 10, or 20 years is quite obviously a different matter, so comparing Ivey or Hellmuth's record to Frankenberger's is obviously ****ing ******ed, which is the reason I didn't do it.

You can never state anything with absolute certainty in poker, but it doesn't take much of a leap to say that those players who have succeeded over the longest time against the toughest fields are likely to be the best players. Similarly, those who have succeeded greatly over a short period like Frankenberger are likely to at least be competent, but you really cannot deduce anything at all from 47 tournaments. There are probably hundreds of online and live players out there who would be entirely capable of replicating Frankenberger's results if they ran good enough, and there are probably thousands of recreational players who would **** it up even if they did run good enough.

I'm not saying Frankenberger is a terrible player or whatever. I'm just saying that his results indicate nothing more than he probably has a positive ROI in the games he's playing. We have to use other info to deduce his ability, and that info (coming from hands he's played on TV) doesn't do him any favours.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:38 PM   #454
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by 6Bet4High View Post
beating ivey hu to win a bracelet seems like a pretty decent way to silence ones critics. bravo sir
only if the critics are as dumb as you. it was a 25bb hu match, winning it means quite literally nothing
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:02 PM   #455
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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only if the critics are as dumb as you. it was a 25bb hu match, winning it means quite literally nothing
Since tournies often come down to this scenario I guess that means ______.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #456
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

They should consider putting an Andy Frankenburger on the menu at the BK Whopper Bar.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:11 PM   #457
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Since tournies often come down to this scenario I guess that means that tournaments are an unreliable indicator of poker skill because the shallowness of the effective stack sizes subjects the outcome to an incredible amount of variance.
Didn't really expect this from a 2007 reg date like yourself. You might want to venture outside of NVG.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:02 AM   #458
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Didn't really expect this from a 2007 reg date like yourself. You might want to venture outside of NVG.
I never set foot in NVG until last year!! That was when the BF mess happened.

You filled in the blank!!!!

This post and others I made IIT was in response to all those that said AF winning meant nothing. I was saying that if his win meant nothing than using the same criteria many if not most wins mean nothing. It was not meant as my actual opinion. There have been some very good posts as well, some in response to my posts.

I understand the variance of tournies which is why I play mostly cash games. Getting a player to over raise me and put all his money in with AKo vs my KK near the bubble at the Aussie Millions and me having no outs on the flop and thereby crippling me and then building my stack up a bit and losing a flip just a few players from the bubble brought me so much joy. Yet I don't begrudge AF his good fortune because he conducts himself well.

One other note on playing live. There is a lot of information you can get from seeing your opponents. Watching AF play the final table, and it is the only time I have seen him play, it doesn't seem like this is a strength of his. Although he did give off a nice reverse tell but I do not know if it was on purpose.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:57 AM   #459
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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all wins mean nothing
fyp
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:54 AM   #460
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by 6Bet4High View Post
beating ivey hu to win a bracelet seems like a pretty decent way to silence one critic. bravo sir
fyp
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:35 AM   #461
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

ignore all the haters even though i am one
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:45 PM   #462
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
Frankenberger tries out video poker one day and hits 2 royals in about 10 hands. Also talks about catching 2 foul balls in a single Red Sox game.

Confirmed wizard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrbVDXWHcE
lmfao.. I thought this was a joke at first.. then I watched the video.. wtf..
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:22 AM   #463
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by LOL POT-ODDS View Post
praying this classless douchenozzle doesn't win a bracelet...
Pretty sure there were a couple of posts like this ITT, and I'm curious where they're coming from. He seems very humble and likeable in the post bracelet win interview as well as the video poker one; has he been a real ass elsewhere?

Also, while the 2 RFs in 10 hands is pretty cool, it's not quite as unlikely as it sounds, once you realize it was 10 hands at a time and he was dealt 4 to a Royal.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:22 AM   #464
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by swighey View Post
Methinks we got some successful online cash game players who are a little jealous of these live pros -EV plays in tournaments. Why the hate? Yeh they are far richer than you, get sponsored, get free t-shirts, and are multi-millionaires. But in the long run we'll all be dead anyway.
touche'
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:22 AM   #465
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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only if the critics are as dumb as you. it was a 25bb hu match, winning it means quite literally nothing
so do most wsop events, you just aget a bracelet but for some reason a lot of people define these events as who is the best when it is clearly not the case.

Frankenburger is on fire though. He plays unorthodox and weird but he has to be doing something right to get the results he is getting.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:14 AM   #466
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Pretty sure there were a couple of posts like this ITT, and I'm curious where they're coming from. He seems very humble and likeable in the post bracelet win interview as well as the video poker one; has he been a real ass elsewhere?

Also, while the 2 RFs in 10 hands is pretty cool, it's not quite as unlikely as it sounds, once you realize it was 10 hands at a time and he was dealt 4 to a Royal.
Same reason these people always spout bile, jealousy/inadequacy..
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:08 PM   #467
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Frankenberger isn't even near Ivey in terms of skill, any fish can win one tourney, it was 25bb or less HU match, Ivey would take all of Frankenberger's money in the long run playing multiple HU matches against him, etc. C'mon we know this. The guy has a unique style, he runs really awesome, he isn't the best in poker but does enough to win. Is it fair he wins more than others that are better than him? No. That is tournament poker variance for you. /thread.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #468
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by bef99hwk View Post
Frankenberger isn't even near Ivey in terms of skill, any fish can win one tourney, it was 25bb or less HU match, Ivey would take all of Frankenberger's money in the long run playing multiple HU matches against him, etc. C'mon we know this. The guy has a unique style, he runs really awesome, he isn't the best in poker but does enough to win. Is it fair he wins more than others that are better than him? No. That is tournament poker variance for you. /thread.
Is Ivey as good as he was?

Frankenberger clearly has an unorthodox style and might be good or might be terrible. He did outplay Ivey HU. This is clear too. In the long run most of us (NVG micro donks and hi-rolling visitors alike) doubt that he would do this most of the time. So he might be a fish.

But

Is Ivey as good as he was?

Or is he just running goog at the WSOP 2012?
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #469
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swighey View Post
Is Ivey as good as he was?

Frankenberger clearly has an unorthodox style and might be good or might be terrible. He did outplay Ivey HU. This is clear too. In the long run most of us (NVG micro donks and hi-rolling visitors alike) doubt that he would do this most of the time. So he might be a fish.

But

Is Ivey as good as he was?

Or is he just running goog at the WSOP 2012?
lol the bold text means it is 100% true right?

"outplaying" ivey with a 25bb stack is something i feel i could do (on a good day) given the chance.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #470
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Here's how he does it apparently:

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/94782...and-poker.html
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:19 PM   #471
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

He's making a run in WSOP 1k. 175 left. From PokerNews:

*
Frankenberger Doubles a Short Stack
*
Andy Frankenberger opened for 2,500 from the hijack and action folded to a short-stacked Gabriel Torres in the big blind. He looked down at his own stack and decided it was the moment to commit. Frankenbergerasked for a count, which turned out to be 5,400 total, and then made the call.

Showdown
Frankenberger:
Torres:

"Wow, you got it goodm" Frankeberger said after seeing they shared a six. The paired Torres, while the turn left Frankeberger drawing dead. "One of my favorite hands is 8-6," Frankenberger said after the was put out on the river. "Not in that spot," he added.

Andy Frankenberger 37,000 1,600
Gabriel Torres
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #472
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Guy must be doing something right, whether it's something that we can put a finger on or not.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:49 PM   #473
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

gg for andy, he finished 166th/2795 and takes a very brief lead on the player of the year standings

1 Andy Frankenberger 384.66
2 Phil Ivey 383.55
3 John Monnette 319.50
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #474
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

the guy certainly has some natural talent, but shipping donkaments still comes down to catching cards. He's obv quite good at the latter.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:02 PM   #475
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

variance
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