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Old 06-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #251
Blizzuff
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

too solid
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:14 AM   #252
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Shock horror .....tournament player makes mistakes yet wins tournaments......how is this so?
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:28 AM   #253
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

guess he brought a grenade to a gun fight

Last edited by striiing; 06-11-2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: un-touchables reference
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #254
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

I will give him credit for being level headed in this first video posted here
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #255
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwise View Post
Here's the latest 2012 WSOP player of the year standings. Would be sick if he does it!

1 Andrew Frankenberger 372.16
2 John Monnette 310.50
3 Brian Hastings 292.50
4 Phil Ivey 278.55
5 Ashkan Razavi 274.06
6 Aubin Cazals 251.00
7 Phil Hellmuth 240.00

The man with the hottest name in poker Frankenberger!
Does that include Hellmuth's win?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:02 AM   #256
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by Smallballs View Post
I understand what you're saying and kind of agree in part. However, I think part of his success has to be attributed to him being very hard to play against because he doesn't play ABC poker which confuses his opponents (HU against Ivey I think he got Ivey to make a couple of rare mistakes because he couldn't work out what line AF was taking - it could be argued that AF doesn't even know what line he's taking sometimes and maybe he doesn't).

I think his image probably helps him get paid off in spots early and that has helped get him deep in tourneys where he's no doubt run good also. Whether it's by design or just luck is arguable, but I think he's definitley smart enough to understand his image and how to use that to his advantage despite making some "technical" mistakes that we don't usually see from the pros.
Well the thing is, the reason bad players often confuse good ones with lines or plays that 'don't make sense' is because their lines are so bad it forces the good player to re-evaluate their perception of the other guy's play, and you often don't get the chance to see the period of adaptation that comes afterward.

There are often spots vs bad players where you have fold equity even though you'd never have it vs good players, but you don't find out until you've gone through such a spot, and you don't get the chance to use that info until it comes around again. You might be able to 3bet a guy super light because he folds to almost all 3bets, but until you get a hand good enough to 3bet someone for whom you didn't have that information (probably more than once in order that you see him fold more than once), you don't find out that he's folding too much so you can't adapt.

Essentially what I'm saying is that tournament poker is all about inferences based on tiny sample sizes, which is where variance is heightened. So far, Frankenberger has played a small sample of hands in spots where a high % of his tournament equity is on the line, and over those particular hands he has run extremely good, and he's happened to make 'unconventional' plays in spots where it hasn't affected his equity much. However, what you don't see in live poker is how much value he might lose in the long term by playing big hands 'unconventionally', or how exploitable he might become. People are super results-oriented and to say X, Y or Z play is good or bad just because it worked or didn't work is false logic - there's no such thing as 'can't argue with results' in poker. You can argue with them, and you can also argue that some random midstakes grinder is the best player in the world. LOL variance.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #257
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

I dont know what its worst: Folding Queens getting 5.5 to 1 or 6betting AK. I hate poeple who overplay AK

I HATE THEM
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:45 AM   #258
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

the king high river check bluff was my favorite play from him last night imo. totally outplayed ivey obv.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:49 AM   #259
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by Kralex View Post
The guy used to work as an Equity Derivatives trader, maybe he does have a clue lol.
How is this relevant?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #260
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by LOL POT-ODDS View Post
he must be running like sweet christ
except Andys the one giving out the beatings, floggings and crucifixions

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayton bigsby View Post
i guess its technically not classless and douchey but this isnt some 1-2nl game...they are playing HU for a wsop bracelet in a 10k buy in tournament...its just weird and moronic to do it anytime in a situation like this, especially when ur playing HU vs ivey...and im not an ivey nuthugger i could care less about ivey, but i have become a die hard andy frankenburger hater from the 5-10 times ive had the displeasure of watching him play poker
The reaction to Andy reminds me of the early days of the poker boom when all the pros were getting run over by the aggressive internet kids and the pros constantly bashed their play instead of looking in the mirror and realizing they weren't adapting correctly to the new style of play and were being outplayed as a result. It took some time but they soon adapted and eventually began to respect the internet players.

I can't help but wonder if there is a little bit of this going on with Andy, I just can't see how you can luck box your way through an entire tournament on a consistent basis so I suspect he's doing something right to continually get to these final tables. We unfortunately don't get to see all the hands he plays, only the few that make the news.

I still am left wondering the answer to the question of how he does it though.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:59 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yimyammer View Post
except Andys the one giving out the beatings, floggings and crucifixions



The reaction to Andy reminds me of the early days of the poker boom when all the pros were getting run over by the aggressive internet kids and the pros constantly bashed their play instead of looking in the mirror and realizing they weren't adapting correctly to the new style of play and were being outplayed as a result. It took some time but they soon adapted and eventually began to respect the internet players.

I can't help but wonder if there is a little bit of this going on with Andy, I just can't see how you can luck box your way through an entire tournament on a consistent basis so I suspect he's doing something right to continually get to these final tables. We unfortunately don't get to see all the hands he plays, only the few that make the news.

I still am left wondering the answer to the question of how he does it though.
Was starting to wonder the same thing. Wondering even more if having amazing instincts can make up for poor play.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:59 AM   #262
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Proven hero GG
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:09 AM   #263
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by Kolo Toure View Post
How is this relevant?
It was a joke. You know, cause Poker and equity...Actually..just forget about it..
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:10 AM   #264
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

to anyone defending andy did u watch the final table? im not being sarcastic at all when i say that he ran like jesus...he lost 1 meaningful all in the entire final table and it was when it was 10 handed and he lost a10 vs the other clown at the table ali's j8 all in on 108x flop turn 9 river 7...even after that bad beat he still had above average stack...after that he ran like god...he coolered about 3 dudes qq>kqcc button vs bb, AA>ak 3 handed...twice he won a massive race with ak>66 and 66>ak(the board ran out 10J6...Q...Q when he had 66 vs shaun deebs ak)...i do think he played OK HU vs ivey though...

all the people saying he owned ivey in the k6 hand, i dont think so...ivey clearly had a flush draw and i think he thought that andy was so spazzy and weird that if he bet the river andy would hero call with any pair...the old saying "u cant bluff a bad player" i honestly thought phil thought he was getting called if andy had any piece...the more i think about it the more i think andy played that hand like an idiot...he was clearly check folding the river, so if hes gonna check raise the turn and rep something huge then i think he has to bet the river...he just got lucky that ivey had what he had and didnt want to pull the trigger on the river...everything at the final table just worked out for andy, which seems to happen quite often with him...
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:06 AM   #265
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moki View Post
If Frankenberger busts Ivey in Event 17: $10,000 Pot-Limit Hold'em, the universe will implode.
IMPLODED
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #266
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by 2incher View Post
the king high river check bluff was my favorite play from him last night imo. totally outplayed ivey obv.
this
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #267
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Ivey let him win, let the fish enjoy some success so he can get him in the cash games later - it's the only explanation.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:29 AM   #268
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Fell asleep after his sick hand vs Deeb, updates on his other luckboxaments?
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #269
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Proof right here that there's not necessarily an "optimal line" the way online players think. It's always been a small pet peeve of mine when online players call a certain play an "optimal line"

Go Andy! Hero to live players!
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:47 AM   #270
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by superkewli View Post
This is beyond fairy tale - it's inconceivable.
i laughed... hard

/NormanChadftw
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #271
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by icantfoldsets View Post
Proof right here that there's not necessarily an "optimal line" the way online players think. It's always been a small pet peeve of mine when online players call a certain play an "optimal line"

Go Andy! Hero to live players!
He's definitely keeping the illusion alive.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:53 AM   #272
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by icantfoldsets View Post
Proof right here that there's not necessarily an "optimal line" the way online players think. It's always been a small pet peeve of mine when online players call a certain play an "optimal line"

Go Andy! Hero to live players!
Confirmed $10 freezeout player
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:54 AM   #273
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yimyammer View Post

The reaction to Andy reminds me of the early days of the poker boom when all the pros were getting run over by the aggressive internet kids and the pros constantly bashed their play instead of looking in the mirror and realizing they weren't adapting correctly to the new style of play and were being outplayed as a result. It took some time but they soon adapted and eventually began to respect the internet players.

I can't help but wonder if there is a little bit of this going on with Andy...
The difference is that some of the old school pros were adapting by actually acknowledging the math behind poker. Something that the internet kids were trying to explain to them by using simple logic.
Therefore you cant compare it with Frankenbergers case, unless he can actually come up with a logical explanation for his plays.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:01 PM   #274
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

confirmed Andy Frankenberger GOAT?
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:09 PM   #275
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

inb4 Frankendonker's monster wins the main event
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