OP is going to get exactly what a local bookie who owns 1/3 of a huge game says he is going to get, no discussion.

I understand that the phone call was a bit strange, but when he told me about getting robbed (20 minutes after initial phone call), he said tbat it had just happened when he callled me and the person had already left. I agree it’s strange that he didn’t just say “I got robbed, explain later” or something along those lines, but who knows what state of mind you’re in after having a gun to your head and your life flashing before your eyes. I imagine the first thing he did was call the person running the game to report what happened and what the person robbing him looked like.

As of yesterday evening he has sent me $1700 on PayPal, after only initially sending $300. I sent him the links to the thread here and the one on the poker subreddit, and explained a few scenarios to him through text in which for example if he gave me the money to go play and I racked up and got robbed on the way to his place I would still owe him the dough. He sent me $1400 more and asked for some time to consider everything. The fact that he hasn’t just straight up ignored me and has sent me roughly 20% makes me feel as though this will be resolved. I texted him this morning and offered to meet w him today to collect $6300 cash and called it even.

As for the reason why I didn’t insist on getting paid right then and there, I was already intending on probably crashing at his place after a long grueling session and there has literally never been one issue getting my money from him when I win ever. And we have played in that game quite a few times and have always been paid the money in full and sometimes he splits off mine when we go grab breakfast or something, so it never crossed my mind that I would need to get my $10k before something happened.

I appreciate everyone’s opinions/advice on this matter

Maybe in a mob run game with a player base of questionable backgrounds.

In your regular larger underground game, the 2/3 owner will make sure nothing happens to the longevity of his game.

Regarding why OP and backer didn't settle right there, pretty obvious answer: because the other players in the game don't know that one player backs (at least) one other player. There's also a decent chance OP doesn't even know if he's the only one at the table being backed by that guy. In general, lots of players would not be happy if they found out that half the table plays out of the same pocket. Therefore you don't settle in front of those players but keep things private.

You make a good point Madlex. I’d say that half of the players know, and the other half either don’t know or are too stupid or ignorant to care honestly. I know of one other player in the game that he has a percentage of. But yes, I try to minimize obvious cash interactions with him in front of everyone. We also don’t collude in any way, just play our hands accordingly

If you don't hand over cash at the game, how come he has all the money after you left and you didn't? You're up like $30k, why didn't you bring that home yourself and gave him what you owe him afterwards?

Okay, good. I was confused by this exact point of the story myself, but I also have zero experience with backers and makeup.

Kelvis I’m a bit confused by your wording so I’ll just break down what happened.
- meet backer at game, he is already playing
- I am in 7k make up
- sit down and request 4k (no cash exchange, house knows I’m on backers book)
- he quits 30 minutes prior to me cashing out and is -$30k
- I cash out $36k for $32k profit, clearing my make up + $25k
- people in the game were starting to hit me up to borrow as I was racking up
- didn’t want to deal with this, gave chips to backer who was still there, and I left without saying a word to anyone else. Told backer he could just cash it out and meet me at his apartment 5 minutes away and we could settle up then

That changes a lot actually. So stuff was going on, people were arguing and asking for money (which is never a good sign), you didn't want to deal with it and give your chips to your backer. This while everyone sees it.

So you're out of there, everyone knows you just stashed your backer with $32k, and he gets robbed. If I was him I would be very, very, very pissed. You basically made him the target.

I didn’t “stash” him with 32k. If you’re paying attention at all to the fact that he lost 30 and I won 32 and we were on the book together with no cash exchanged, then all he received from the game was $2k. He tends to not always have all that much cash in his car when he goes to the games bc he has unlimited credit bc everyone knows he is good for it. Nobody ever sees my backer touch any cash until the end of the night cashing out. So it is likely that when I left, and the game broke, people knew that he was only receiving $2k total in profit. And why should he be pissed with me? It wasn’t an uncommon thing for him to handle all the cash transactions at the end of the night and for us to settle later when we went to eat or back to his place etc. When I told him I wanted to leave he had no qualms with that. It’s not as if I forced him against his will but I cash me out. He has won big there before and people have seen him cashing out the profit previously and getting paid immediately so by no means should I be held at fault for any of this just because it happens to be the time I book a massive win. /rant

You asked for opinions, you got opinions. You don't like it, don't ask for it.

Also sending URL's of threads you made is rude. So is asking for your money after he got robbed.

if ur backer only left the place with 2k how did he get robbed for 20k? even more lol he asked u if hes still due ur 10k, if he left the place with 2k and really did get robbed that would still only be 1k each and hes still due u atleast 9k, no idea why hes asked u if hes still due, whole thing seems made up

And it’s your opinion that a bookie wouldn’t know how to handle money? They’re playing in a game where you can win or lose 30k and you think this is first time anyone has ever realized there might be a lot of money in people’s pockets?

That was my thought but then it turned out it is hidden in one of the various posts in this thread; he had some cash with him before the game (why go on the books if you have cash) and others might have paid him back or something like that. We're supposed to have figured that out in this weird story with plenty of holes.

That’s the thing. I didn’t ask for it after he got robbed. I made no mention of him getting the money to me. He knew I needed some $$ and sent me $300 on PayPal the morning after it happened, and then I texted him asking if my numbers were correct that I am owed $9700, not asking for it right now. He then responds asking if I still think that he owes me the full amount considering he got robbed on the way to deliver it to me (he was going home regardless and I was meeting him there). That is why I made this thread. I never thought for a second it would be a question whether or not I am still owed the full amount. All I was initially concerned with was his safety and making sure he was ok and then I figured I would get paid the full amount within a reasonable time frame.

People are asking for money and are upset for some reason. It's the reason OP left in the first place so unless he is being too careful this should have some weight. OP said "tension are high". You want to give the host more cash on hand in such an instant?

Yes. Typically you want the people most experienced with carrying lots of money to be carrying the money.

And yeah I had no idea the amount of cash he had with him. But it just makes it easier when we are playing for him to go on books because we buy in for large amounts and they know he’s good for it and random short stackers are in the game buying in for 100-300 constantly so it is just a hassle. From what I can ascertain he probably had about $15k in his car when he rolled up to the game and got the $2k profit between the two of us plus whatever other money he collected while he was there. Also $5-10k wins happen occasionally at this game but this was the highest amount anybody had ever won in one night at this location.

I would say hes due u 9k and thats being generous, hes only taken out 2k in cash from the poker venue, anything else he got "robbed" for has nothing to do with you, so split the 2k loss 50/50 and say u will accept 9k

Typically I agree. Just in this situation a more even distribution of cash might have been the way to go. Now we know the host was on the books for $30k, some other players that came in late might not know that. They just see OP dump $30k and with tensions being high, people asking for money and given the fact that OP stated this was an extraordinary win for this game and I think it makes him more likely to be a target.

Fwiw everyone in the game had been there the entire time basically and knew how much he lost because he would say “give me $5k, that should put me at $20k” and the host would confirm the amount.

He’s a bookie and part owner of an illegal home game. He’s already a target, and should know how to move money. Why do you think he was given the money in the first place? Because they both knew he was less likely to get robbed. You don’t play bank without accepting the risk

It's important to note that this was the largest amount anyone had ever won in the game. I'm sure it surprised the bookie.
This remind me of the norm macdonald story about betting with a bookie in NYC: Norm knows nothing about gambling, has tons of money, proceeds to lose hundreds of thousands to bookie, pays it like he is "supposed to", then proceeds to go on a crazy heater where he keeps re-betting his winnings, decides to stop and collect his ~$400K, and the bookie is just like , "nah. not gonna pay it."

My guess is your "bookie" friend never thought he would ever have to pay out $30K to anyone. or knew he wouldn't.

Also, does this game have any players from Asheville in it?

You may not have 'stashed' him with the money but if the robbery did actually take place it's reasonable to think that other people THINKING he had the money is what lead to it happening, and if you hadn't handed over the chips to him you likely would have been the target.

That said i think if he owned 1/3rd of the game and was exclusively staking you in said game, he's assuming the risks associated with movement of money. Or at least that's how it would work if this was a normal employment situation. It would only become a grey area when you're dealing with independent contractors who have unsupervised possession of the end product (or in this case money) where there's a duty of care owe that may or may not have been met. ie: if this was a more general staking arrangement where you choose your own games and are handling the money, and you on your own time played in sketchy undergrounds. If he was always physically there, overseeing the money, and supervising your "work" i think it's implied that he's the one taking on the risk.

Legally it all means nothing though since even if you did have a contract it wouldn't be legally enforceable. You're just going to have to take whatever he's willing to give you.

This is the exact correct answer IMO.

He got robbed a bunch of his money and not poker money.

Of course, depending on who the guy is, your relationship,m future desire to do dealings with him etc... it may be better tio set a new staking arrangement where you get to keep more till you get the 9K (or what is left of it....).

[QUOTE=UNCommon09;5323012 But yes, I try to minimize obvious cash interactions with him in front of everyone. We also don’t collude in any way, just play our hands accordingly[/QUOTE]

Interesting...