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Old 02-17-2019, 03:47 PM   #101
gopackthomas
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by Mimicry View Post
A lot of the entrans are from satties and from people which wouldnt play this tournet if theres wasnt a boycot aka they play it cuz beast mode regs will not .I thinked that it would overlay but the guarantie wasnt that big for a 5200 buy in series tournament ,i guess thats why they reduce the rewards so they can boost its guarantie for 2020 Kappa.
Yeah, I wish they would stop treating guarantees like their some great gift to players. Guarantees usually are met because people are incentivized to register if their is currently overlay etc.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:10 PM   #102
delfins
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

I guess silver lining is that decent number of regs was able organize bigger 5k event in partypoker with short notice.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:17 PM   #103
CodyBLAHHH
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Watching Matt Staples stream the PartyPoker 5k
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:42 PM   #104
golfbum983
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

All the boycott did is make the tournament playable for the average and bad regs, will all top players sitting out, congrats
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:56 PM   #105
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by golfbum983 View Post
All the boycott did is make the tournament playable for the average and bad regs, will all top players sitting out, congrats

With a tiny guarantee relative to the buy in it didn't have a monetary impact in terms of overlay... but it has a long term effect. Now Pstars will have to keep guarantees lower for all events in the future for fear that a strike could spring up within a few days notice. This isn't what Pokerstars wants. What company wants to deal with economic terrorism?

With that list of players if they stayed devoted I could easily find opportunities to cause Pstars to overlay in the 7 figures yearly if they put forth a typical offering. The key is picking spots much like an MTT player seeks value in tourneys.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:59 PM   #106
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Ofcourse there was/will be effect, only stupid people can not see it.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:03 PM   #107
delfins
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

While i would love to believe players staying devoted and it growing in some way, i think it more like mtt late stage - allin or fold.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:14 PM   #108
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

at this stage it could only be that the point is to show displeasure with not much effect perhaps in he short term, things always turn around , players may have a lot more alternatives soon, that's when things become real scary for stars, when there is real choice and when FU becomes easy, it will hurt them.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:42 PM   #109
Jayus
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by delfins View Post
I guess silver lining is that decent number of regs was able organize bigger 5k event in partypoker with short notice.
I don't play MTTs, but I'd say its more than a silver lining. A scenario where Party is able to pull off a bigger GTD than Stars for the same tournament sends a much louder message in a world where Stars had MTT monopoly for as long as I can remember. Overlay can happen for many reasons, but when your direct competition is able to offer bigger GTDs, then you should start getting worried about your bottom line.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:50 PM   #110
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Whilst I agree with the demands, I have to disagree that PKOs are lower ROI games. They require more concentration for sure and that means less tables, but they're probably much higher ROI games for people who play just few tables. This doesn't mean that I would agree that bounty part should be raked -> it shouldn't be raked.

Rebuys and turbos should have lower rake, period.

Big rake @ turbo events is unbearable, especially at <20$ buy-ins since they're raked super heavily. They should have same rake which hypers have now, while hypers should have 3% rake max.

Unfortunately I won't see PartyPoker taking the mantle as long as current MTT team is staying. Constant changes in schedule and no strategy whatsoever is no winning plan.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:02 PM   #111
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Potentially half a million overlay, biggest of all time?
1/2 million would only have been the third biggest online overlay in the last 18 months, never mind all time.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:03 PM   #112
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

I dont know if boycotting the tournament is the solution. Because ultimately people are going to chase the eV no matter what. What I think the high stakes regs should do in fact is the opposite.

Its probably too impossible to pull off as it would have to be a coordinated effort by basically everyone in the tournament. But its possible for the players to give themselves net zero rake on the tournament by playing precisely below the guarantee. This is what would really **** Stars over.

For example, there was a 750k guarantee today for which when it hit, stars made approximately 200x150= 30k in rake. Therefore the optimal point at which the effort should be constructed at should be 144 players (6 players below the guarantee) for it to be an effectively rakeless tournament. As stars is paying in overlay what they made in rake. This makes the tournament -eV for the scabs who will fill it with crusher out. +eV for the regs and negative eV for stars as they broke even overall but paid for server costs. Resulting in Stars overtime having to reduce the effective guarantee and eventually losing all their player base. Without the scab infestation that occurred today. There is no gain in eV between 144-150 entries from a players perspective. Its purely cost recovery from Stars. That is the sweet spot to attack them.

This might be implausible but if the HighStakes MTT crushers on the boycott could make aware in all the tournaments they play, of the optimal tournament entries to **** Stars. (Via an avatar picture or whatever "144 players"). This is the real way to systemically attack a system. You'll attack the guarantees and systematically create a rakeless environment. It would have to be a pretty widespread campaign, but I think most people would be willing to support this cause and give up a tiny bit of edge rather than people expecting nobody to take up stars on a 600k overlay.

Just my two cents. The Highstakes community is small. The tournaments aren't gigantically sized. Could be worth it. If everyone participated in that practice, you will drown out Stars before they drown out you.

Think of it as the hot thing since jamming 99% of your stack and then tanking for the ladder.

Last edited by Halo_P1; 02-17-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:28 PM   #113
delfins
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Would love party having bigger series during scoop, obv by "cheating" and having longer series and more very high stakes games with mediocre gtd. (vs buyin) and regs agreeing to fill. + Skipping stars SHR

Last edited by delfins; 02-17-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:28 PM   #114
SirDehi
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

187 registered, no overlay, overall if 200+ people really did boycot the event then PStars missed out on ... 40k USD.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:35 PM   #115
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo_P1 View Post
I dont know if boycotting the tournament is the solution. Because ultimately people are going to chase the eV no matter what. What I think the high stakes regs should do in fact is the opposite.

Its probably too impossible to pull off as it would have to be a coordinated effort by basically everyone in the tournament. But its possible for the players to give themselves net zero rake on the tournament by playing precisely below the guarantee. This is what would really **** Stars over.

For example, there was a 750k guarantee today for which when it hit, stars made approximately 200x150= 30k in rake. Therefore the optimal point at which the effort should be constructed at should be 144 players (6 players below the guarantee) for it to be an effectively rakeless tournament. As stars is paying in overlay what they made in rake. This makes the tournament -eV for the scabs who will fill it with crusher out. +eV for the regs and negative eV for stars as they broke even overall but paid for server costs. Resulting in Stars overtime having to reduce the effective guarantee and eventually losing all their player base. Without the scab infestation that occurred today. There is no gain in eV between 144-150 entries from a players perspective. Its purely cost recovery from Stars. That is the sweet spot to attack them.

This might be implausible but if the HighStakes MTT crushers on the boycott could make aware in all the tournaments they play, of the optimal tournament entries to **** Stars. (Via an avatar picture or whatever "144 players"). This is the real way to systemically attack a system. You'll attack the guarantees and systematically create a rakeless environment. It would have to be a pretty widespread campaign, but I think most people would be willing to support this cause and give up a tiny bit of edge rather than people expecting nobody to take up stars on a 600k overlay.

Just my two cents. The Highstakes community is small. The tournaments aren't gigantically sized. Could be worth it. If everyone participated in that practice, you will drown out Stars before they drown out you.

Think of it as the hot thing since jamming 99% of your stack and then tanking for the ladder.
If we assume that what you are suggesting could actually be done in real life, which ofc it can't, you would also have to factor in the rake they make from the satellites to the tournaments.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:04 PM   #116
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Stars really needs to fix the payouts in PKOs so that first isn't so massive compared to second place.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:45 PM   #117
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Sorry you don't get that effective collective action generally requires that those who cross the line face some consequences. That you think a question about what might be done, beyond name-calling is "absurdly stupid" only exposes your ignorance in such matters*.

Poker players excel at name calling; they are not so good at collective action.

OP deserves a medal for his work in this thread. He has posted there will be follow-up.

(*Refusing to work (or play) with "scabs" may not fit your experience, but that's the sort of measure that discourages scabbing. Let's take PlayerScab for example .... why not sit out whenever he sits down in a cash game and refuse him action and tell him why ?*)
bro they're not playing on the same team, why are you posting nonsense like a crazy person
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:45 PM   #118
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

what would hurt stars is if all the players listed in this thread and possibly more would agree to cash out their entire bankroll and play somewhere else
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:15 PM   #119
synth_floyd
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Does Stars or any major site ever pay out overlay on their guaranteed tourneys? I was going through the list and every tourney hit their guarantee. I assume they have it worked out like actuaries where they know how many people will reg and put the guarantee X amount below that or something like that.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:21 PM   #120
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
Does Stars or any major site ever pay out overlay on their guaranteed tourneys? I was going through the list and every tourney hit their guarantee. I assume they have it worked out like actuaries where they know how many people will reg and put the guarantee X amount below that or something like that.
Yes, Stars has paid overlays a ton of times, I'm not 100% sure but the largest overlay I remember Stars paying out was the $1.2mil about a year ago.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:08 PM   #121
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

how nicks like 0human0 (3) or hhecklen are so miserable?
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:09 PM   #122
Gzesh
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
bro they're not playing on the same team, why are you posting nonsense like a crazy person
Go get a Dictionary and look up collective, as in "collective action".

Then go look up "scab".

You then may grasp that there are two opposing sides, players who cooperate with the collective action and those who cross the line and in doing so act in opposite to the collective action.

" but they're not playing for the same team" smacks of abject ignorance on your part. Not "crazy", you just don't understand too much about picking sides in a struggle for a common goal.

Last edited by Gzesh; 02-17-2019 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:17 PM   #123
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
what would hurt stars is if all the players listed in this thread and possibly more would agree to cash out their entire bankroll and play somewhere else
Probably can't be more wrong.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:22 PM   #124
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
what would hurt stars is if all the players listed in this thread and possibly more would agree to cash out their entire bankroll and play somewhere else
they hate regs, they will do everything in their power to eliminate as many regs as possible, already most rakeback or close to b/e regs are all gone now, turned into losing by the rake/rakeback changes

As soon as bazov took over I remember he said he considering all players consumers
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:23 PM   #125
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Go get a Dictionary and look up collective, as in "collective action".

Then go look up "scab".

You then may grasp that there are two opposing sides, players who cooperate with the collective action and those who cross the line and in doing so act in opposite to the collective action.

" but they're not playing for the same team" smacks of abject ignorance on your part. Not "crazy", you just don't understand too much about picking sides in a struggle for a common goal.
lol imagine being such a crazy person that you think i 1) dont know about unions, 2) dont support unions based on anything i've posted itt

Spoiler:


not sure if you're aware but poker players dont have a union and dont work collectively on the job. who gives a **** what the participants/non-participants of this boycott do after the event? all things considered, the organization was good, the execution was good, and a statement was clearly made with that laundry list of names who didn't participate and party running a simultaneous event.
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