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Old 02-16-2019, 12:02 PM   #1
jdawg91
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Spade High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

The time to make a stand was probably a long time ago and while similar actions have been previously taken by cashgame and sit n go players we, the MTT community, believe to have a bit more leverage because we can make or break the guarantees and divert action from one site to a competitor, if need be, more effectively.
We will stand together and make a change for the better.

The nonstop rake increases and unbeatable formats they have been pushing on all of us, with the latest one pushing me over the edge, made me reach out to some of the highstakes regs to try and convince them to skip the 5k psko turbo as a protest.
The positive feedback was overwhelming and it didn't take long for a group to naturally form.

Pokerstars has a had a huge positive impact on so many of our lives, some professionals would likely have very different lives had it not been for them - myself included. The opportunity they provide to be able to make a living from a computer, playing a game, from almost anywhere in the world is amazing! However, with recent changes, this poker dream is turning more and more into an impossible dream.

We want to get a dialogue going, both with Pokerstars and the other sites, in order to give proper feedback as to what we believe needs to be changed.

Our main issues are;

1. Rake is constantly increasing and rakeback decreasing.
2. Rake is not clearly visible and instead hidden all the way down in the lobby, this feels like a scam.
3. Structures of certain MTT’s are designed to lower ROI’s and raise the effective rake.( Psko’s, Turbos, late reg allowed with 10bb, rebuys)
4. Communication is lacking.
5. Transparent Rakeback, it should be easily calculable, regardless of the form in which it gets delivered (points/chests, etc)

What we want:

A direct and open communication with the company.
Rake clearly visible, not hidden.
Rake max 10%, this applies to lowstakes and the .eu pool so no more $9.8+$1.2; $11 mtts.
Reassessment of the rake, across all stakes and in formats where the edges are naturally lower, such as Psko, Rebuys, Turbo, Hypers and combinations of these.
Reduction on the length of Late Registration and number of re-entries.
Debate on future rake increases.

Looking forward to hearing from you and if that’s not the case: future actions will be considered.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:02 PM   #2
jdawg91
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Story on P5s
https://www.pocketfives.com/articles...-event-622704/

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Old 02-16-2019, 12:12 PM   #3
girafganger7
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

here is the list of all my friends who would have played the 5k or atleast try to satellite but decided to skip it:
c.darwin2
lena900
robinho
sasuke234
Anteen
eisenhower1
greenstone25
iamivar
Hello_totti
biack88
Evnomiya
Remi_lebo_10
Ajarov
silentm0de
kot_spartac
Fukuruku
Anjeyyy
IgorKarkarof
1_conor_1_b
poker@luffyd
bparis
Big_huni
nl_profit
elmerixx
european
ssickOne
Romeopro
graftekkel
bencb789
dex888
overthetop43
morans350
amadi_017
sxrgirona
omgjonyctt
tua133
davaman
vicenfish
Gordon0401
fear1wisdom
2pacnrw16
paffchen
th’kick
healtheworld
pwndidi
n3xd
Dhr.awesome
pads1161
probirs
Samsquid
torino2000
foursixfour
die_ventura
pabritz
thenerdguy
blanconegro
bartek901
lasagnaammm
fish2013
Mr. Tim Caum
timothee
260785
zcedrick
nosbocaj.m
Jozinho6
SvZff
malakastyle
Naza1144
RuiNF
mandza17
stakeaddict
ineedmassari
bc1989rf
icebear
cassiopak
12dürma89
iambest2
goosecore
ship it 2010
narciscus90
1Don´tStop1
bigstealer
juarnes
oempaloempah
martomchat
Billlewinsky
heyallison
gusmaa
kelvin_fp:ar
kovalski1
PaDilha SP
hneves
lirola
ratitobr
mr.salgado30
joao Valli
r_scientist
peterwhooo
freddopizza
zagazaur
sousinha23
razer2311
Pm_marke
Poeira4
FreelancerZZ
fenryr03
suchadegen
toweliestar
rodckz
birs320
fellatiado
07papi
palmero92
bebaimis77
cavalito
markovitsus
luckyfish89
BANKR0LL3R
Jeff710
h0ldit
dartazzz
fold_machiii
glitchsystem
nilsef
T54 97s
Apotheosis
BanicIvan
‎Swaggersorus
slayerv1fan
eze8888
tobi123456
zeelandboy
cmon_gasquet
great dant
jenbizzle
durrden
patasss
AAgoodfold
teckidtq
YRWTHMELTHR
corlusion
cal42688
WATnlos
random_chu
leitalopez
I’am sound
kleath
fu_15
gray31
KuuL
Cocojamb0
leqenden
apestyles
drupa-lucker
deivid29
mjw006
garrin4e
fedor
jakoon
melogno
jackziyang
Aponakov
Nolet20
dragonwarior
pappadog
ramastar
veeea
chancescards
swordfish007
tonkaaaaP
ragAAAila19
DuTTiFruTTi9
0piggybank
caaaaaaamel
baeks22
nailuj90
wushutm
belabacsi
Secred_Mod3
abarone68
fankjeee
llJaYJaYll
PSCPRODIGY
JWPRODIGY
josip1313
thetender31
messigoat10
papan9_p$
Frenchdog
skaiwalker
Colisea
omaha4rollz
Playaplz
pappe_ruk
dBerglin
mountainrose
pokerkluka
futti18
thedegenfund
dariepoker
newflat
josef shveik
as leshiy


This lists keeps growing, soon i will reach out to lower/midstakes guys and also other communties.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:14 PM   #4
plappaslappa
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

wow maybe a great time to try and reg it with all the regs sitting out..

edit: the big issue really in these "events" where players sit out is they just continue to keep using them. i remember ansky organized an event like this then somehow raked pokerstars the most the following year.. it's a ****ty situation because stars has such a big hold on the economy and it's up to the players in general to go to other sites and play

Last edited by plappaslappa; 02-16-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:22 PM   #5
Bakes
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by plappaslappa View Post
wow maybe a great time to try and reg it with all the regs sitting out..
you and the rest of the scabs
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:22 PM   #6
29offutgshove
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by plappaslappa View Post
wow maybe a great time to try and reg it with all the regs sitting out..
Unfortunately that is how some people will look at it. But hopefully not too many and pokerstars will get a message!!!!! If players keeping letting them do whatever they want with rake, it will destroy online poker.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:27 PM   #7
plappaslappa
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by 29offutgshove View Post
Unfortunately that is how some people will look at it. But hopefully not too many and pokerstars will get a message!!!!! If players keeping letting them do whatever they want with rake, it will destroy online poker.
i agree, i wasn't actually going to reg it haha. would be funny to see it with a huge overlay
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:29 PM   #8
ignorant0
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by plappaslappa View Post
wow maybe a great time to try and reg it with all the regs sitting out..
yes i would definetly do that if i wouldn't have a spine.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:31 PM   #9
SuicideSquad
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

This is actually a very smart boycott.

Cash Game Boycotts are pointless, but there's a relatively limited pool of people who can play online $5ks. Even if it's very +EV, regging into these will be a lot of variance and a bankroll hit to people who wouldn't dream of playing this sort of game.

I'm pretty sure they'll have to overlay a ton if there are really are 250 players who would play this that are instead skipping.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:42 PM   #10
raidalot
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Meh, enough short-sighted people will probably play to avoid any big overlay. I'm gonna skip it nevertheless because it's important to send a message about how MTT players feel about this constant money-grabbing by stars.

I don't think the action will reverse this latest grab (more than halving "chests" rakeback on MTTs) but if players show enough solidarity it will make stars think much harder before doing the next one.

Add me to the list.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:13 PM   #11
2pairsof2s
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

I think it is great that 250 regs have decided to boycott the event. Since tournaments on Pokerstars with buy-ins over $2000 are only getting about 150 entries during this series, I guess that means it will go off with minus 100 runners. In fact most high rollers on Pokerstars (buy in over $1000) have fields well under 250 runners, and they only get that many during the tournament series events, when endless satellites are running.

Not that I don't understand the point that the boycott is trying to make, but I think that much like the Supernovas a couple of years back, the High Stakes Regs are overestimating their importance to Pokerstars and the poker economy at large. At Pokerstars, job 1 is to siphon off cash from the 100,000 recs who play there, not to appease the 250 guys that play high-rollers.

Pokerstars doesn't care about anyone but the 100,000 Rec's, and for the most part the 100,000 Rec's don't care about things like rake and rakeback. The Rec's attitude is not too different than the attitude of those who play slots and table games; they just want to have fun and play a game, and maybe win a wad of cash now and then. The rest of it is just noise.

Last edited by 2pairsof2s; 02-16-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:17 PM   #12
b1ochemical
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s View Post
I think it is great that 250 regs have decided to boycott the event. Since tournaments on Pokerstars with buy-ins over $2000 are only getting about 150 entries during this series, I guess that means it will go off with minus 100 runners. In fact most high rollers on Pokerstars (buy in over $1000) have fields well under 250 runners, and they only get that many during the tournament series events, when endless satellites are running.

Not that I don't understand the point that the boycott is trying to make, but I think that much like the Supernovas a couple of years back, the Highrollers are overestimating their importance to Pokerstars and the poker economy at large.

Pokerstars doesn't care about anyone but the 100,000 Rec's that play there, and for the most part the 100,000 Rec's don't care about things like rake and rakeback. The Rec's attitude is not too different than the attitude of those who play slots and table games; they just want to have fun and play a game, and maybe win a wad of cash now and then. The rest of it is just noise.
QFT. Couldn't write it down myself, didn't find the right words and deleted it, but I completely agree with what has been written here.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:24 PM   #13
JossoDee
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Glad to see this happening.

Even if this yields no tangible results it's good to see people making a stand.

Hopefully it's just a start.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:31 PM   #14
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

LOL Pokerstars does not care about winning players, they can give 2 crap about them.
They probably privately hope all the winnings regs quit playing on stars to be honest.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:31 PM   #15
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
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you and the rest of the scabs
While the organization of a one-off boycott of that size is impressive, I think it is as yet a far cry from organizing players into an effective collective voice.

1. Bakes,are you just name-calling or do you plan to refuse to play with "scabs" in the future, i.e. those players who cross your line and register/play in the targeted event ?

Is there any social cost to crossing the line ?

It would be interesting to post a list of players who cross the line, as a follow-up in this thread, then see if they are shunned ?

2. Are the boycotters planning to demonstrate their market power by moving action to another site ?
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:36 PM   #16
Gzesh
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s View Post
I think it is great that 250 regs have decided to boycott the event,,,

Pokerstars doesn't care about anyone but the 100,000 Rec's, and for the most part the 100,000 Rec's don't care about things like rake and rakeback. The Rec's attitude is not too different than the attitude of those who play slots and table games; they just want to have fun and play a game, and maybe win a wad of cash now and then. The rest of it is just noise.
Valid points about Recs, although it underestimates the value to any site of regs at the margin, i.e affecting marginal revenue.

It seems that the 250 regs should organize and move en masse to a different site to make their point effectively.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:38 PM   #17
jdawg91
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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2. Are the boycotters planning to demonstrate their market power by moving action to another site ?
Players boycotting the event got in touch with Party Poker and the Party Poker KO Series $3k was changed to a $5k $1mil guarantee that is going to start at the same time as the Pokerstars $5k






Obviously we don't know what future actions might be taken as of this moment as it will depend on many factors, but this seemed like a pretty good move for tomorrow.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:40 PM   #18
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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LOL Pokerstars does not care about winning players, they can give 2 crap about them.
They probably privately hope all the winnings regs quit playing on stars to be honest.
But if all the winning regs quit then wouldn't some of the losing players now become winning players (assuming the games are actually beatable)? Would stars then hope that these new winning players quit too?
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:43 PM   #19
MMMed13
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
1. Bakes,are you just name-calling or do you plan to refuse to play with "scabs" in the future, i.e. those players who cross your line and register/play in the targeted event ?

Is there any social cost to crossing the line ?

It would be interesting to post a list of players who cross the line, as a follow-up in this thread, then see if they are shunned ?
The players caught stealing money are barely shunned. I'm not sure how bad the social uproar will be for playing a boycotted tournament.

I think this is a good attempt but I think stars most likely response will be just to remove this tournament from the next series for doing poorly.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:46 PM   #20
jfound
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

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Originally Posted by kep View Post
But if all the winning regs quit then wouldn't some of the losing players now become winning players (assuming the games are actually beatable)? Would stars then hope that these new winning players quit too?
Yeah way too assume and even if it is beatable the skill gap would be smaller if its rec vs rec instead of regs vs rec
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:51 PM   #21
toots babos
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Although the new payout structure hasn't quite been implemented (YET!) in these high stake games, it would also be worthwhile to add that they reverse this ridiculous payout structure to your list.

I hope this stand gets through to the higher ups of Stars as they've been absolutely destroying MTT poker on their site now for 2+ years.

I had a look at the MTT that you are all boycotting, it's listed as a $750k GTD, was it always listed as a $750k?

I wish you had done a silent boycott until late reg had ended in the game and then made the post about why as all you've done is give them a heads up and now they may choose to reduce the guarentee or even remove the game altogether!

Thank you to everyone who is participating with this boycott, I really hope something good may come out of this.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:01 PM   #22
happy to be hear
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawg91 View Post
Players boycotting the event got in touch with Party Poker and the Party Poker KO Series $3k was changed to a $5k $1mil guarantee that is going to start at the same time as the Pokerstars $5k



Obviously we don't know what future actions might be taken as of this moment as it will depend on many factors, but this seemed like a pretty good move for tomorrow.
Awesome


Quote:
Originally Posted by kep View Post
But if all the winning regs quit then wouldn't some of the losing players now become winning players (assuming the games are actually beatable)? Would stars then hope that these new winning players quit too?
Only about 2% of the feild makes most of the money in this tournament, their aren't going to be tons of people with a big roll when it's over. Conversely, lots of people will bust their rolls on satties and direct buyins.


Good job players, we'll done. Hope this helps things, but i doubt it will


Party poker is def the #1 site for players now, based on ethics, feilds, etc. Does everyone notice that they don't rake the KO portion of the buyin, so a 5200 is a 2500+2600 +100 rake. That is so refreshing to see. PS started raking rebuys ffs, and that was a long time ago.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:21 PM   #23
Maximus122
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Something incredibly radical probably has to happen.

Like a massive advertising campaign needs to be conducted on two plus two, youtube, pocket fives etc where tens of thousands of players pledge on an online forum not to play on Pokerstrars for 3 months or maybe even longer until the rake situation is resolved.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:23 PM   #24
delfins
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Pretty epic.

Would love to see high stakes regs/yotube poker players and other major rooms then stars working together around future series in future but not sure how realistic it is.
Have to see how tomorrow goes.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:27 PM   #25
delfins
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Re: High Stake Regs Boycotting the $5200 Turbo Series PSKO on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus122 View Post
Something incredibly radical probably has to happen.

Like a massive advertising campaign needs to be conducted on two plus two, youtube, pocket fives etc where tens of thousands of players pledge on an online forum not to play on Pokerstrars for 3 months until the rake situation is resolved.
One thing what stars cares about it their image in media and to investors who don't understand online poker.
Coordinated advertising campaign where mocking stars and advertising playing on party/888 what goes somewhat main stream or big in gaming community might be way more hurtful especially long-term.
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