The best cash game players could easily master tournaments if they wanted to, because cash is harder -- the best NL players in the world are the biggest winners at high stakes NL, seems pretty simple? So the crushers in the HS thread. Polk was able to pick up multiple bracelets with minimal effort.

I remember Johnny Chan saying all the way back in 2005 or something that Hellmuth's claims to be the best were ridiculous because he (Chan) didn't bother playing in 90% of the WSOP NL events -- honestly Hellmuth might have played a fuller schedule of WSOP NL events than anyone else on earth?

It would be like Tom Brady playing in an NFL league where 90% of the teams didn't even show up for the regular season or post-season and were replaced by amateurs -- sure, he would be the "greatest", but he's the only one who is actually bothering to play so much.

All of the crushers don't bother with donkaments and just play ring games all summer. I mean, how many people are really trying for WSOP POY each year? Maybe a dozen?

Doyle boycotted the WSOP for a few years, and usually only played a few high buyin events. It must have been kind of weird for him and others whose regular game was 1500/3000 or whatever to play for a buyin that was 3 big bets.

There is no way that Hellmuth was ever a top player. He has / had a lot of obvious leaks. However, he obviously had skills at tournament play, and as you say the competition wasn't that strong. He is probably a better player than many mid stakes grinders and he has made a lot more money than most of them.

I don't know who will win in whatever format they play, but Negreanu is objectively a stronger player.

It's impossible to say who the GOAT is in poker. The whole idea is vaguely ridiculous. It's impossible to even know if a player is up money lifetime.

I agree that there's no clear answer -- I guess I would say maybe someone who has crushed in various formats (MTTs, cash, 8-game, etc.) at the highest level consistently, but it's hard to think of many people who fit that description. Michael Mizrachi? Ivey?

It's definitely not Hellmuth. Ivey is one of the best. To include some old timers, Brunson, Reese, and Moss. Galfond is really good, but he doesn't play live or tournaments much.

I would think any serious player is trying to win POY.

It's not like it's a popularity contest where the winner gets voted by the fans. At least not to my knowledge.

dude... why are you speculating on this? you aren't even sure how it is determined and yet assume anyone who is serious tries for it?

it requires 6+ figures of buyins, grinding every day, often playing multiple tournies at the same time running between tables, and then doing it all over again for the european leg

chasing poy is -ev for poker, it's very valuable for a few guys for legacy/sponsorship/vanity purposes but for the vast majority of people it's just lighting money on fire and inducing a massive amount of needless stress

so no, it's maybe a dozen at most who genuinely chase it and only a handful at the very end once there's a clear leaderboard established

thanks for clarifying

You think he lies, and risks the IRS knocking? If he won 2M, he must've claimed it in his taxes. Not a good idea for him to risk an audit.

Phil Ivey is the G.O.A.T at the card games of poker. Change my mind.

gg Helmuth, unreg pre

Good post.

Anybody here watching this??

I am betting on Hellmuth to take it down.

Yes, tomorrow when it airs. You can't bet Daniel laying those big odds.

after learning some low level heuristics, math doesn't matter anymore

They have Daniel at -220 and Phil at +155 right now.

Kevmath tweet gone, and line on Betonline is gone. lol

That is awesome to hear - honestly more than half the fun in these duels is the ability to get a large audience invested in the emotional aspect of the bet.

Nobody brings a better poker challenge live-stream than PapiGTO and the kid Landon!

Apparently they are going to be commenting from Joey's YT channel. I thought they were going to be at PG. Not sure how that will work as I'm sure they can't show video from the show.

The pre game weigh in just started.

Is Daniel's aggressive language more for show or more a tactic trying to wind up Phil from hand one?