You dont have to "owe" anything to anyone else in order to act in a manner that is positive to the people around you. You can do whatever you want as long as you dont break any laws. But there are still plenty of things you can choose to do that make it clear that you are a douchebag. Ike wearing a mask is one of them.

Its within my rights to tank until the clock is called on me in every single decision. I can pull a Doc Sands and claim that Im just going through my immense decision tree and that its a +EV decision for me that Im within my rights to do. In fact he has a point if other people arent a consideration. If you want to think deeply about future street scenarios, calculating how the SPR will play out on different runouts and with different bet sizes etc, you can pretty legitimately tank for a long time on the flop every time and it will lead to better decisions on average for sure.

Doc Sands was called out for being a douche by everyone, although he wasnt breaking any rules. And behavior like his and other douchebagas who didnt care about the good of the game lead to the introduction of shot clocks in big tournaments. Ike isnt breaking any rules either, and is also a douche. Discussing his behavior could lead to a ban of masks and Vogelsang style hoodies, unless you can prove that you are wearing it legitimately (like if Ike is actually legitimately concerned of contracting germs, and uses masks whenever he is out in other social settings as well).

If it was up to Ike he would have had no maskers/unvaccinated removed from society and put in jail, he’s a scumbag and I wouldn’t care if people started to treat him like **** in public.

1. If that's true, it has nothing to do with him being allowed to wear a mask and/or whatever advantage that might be.

2. Has he stated that, or are you making assumptions?

3. Even if that's his opinion, how does that justify mistreating him?

Apples and oranges. Continually tanking wastes everyone's time and makes the game unbearable. Wearing a mask hurts no one and hardly makes anyone a douchebag. No person has to prove anything to you or anyone else to wear a mask, regardless of their reason(s).

More like green apples and red apples.. One is worse but its the same thing, making poker a shitty experience for viewers and recreationals. Imagine sitting with 7 people wearing a mask a la Ike Haxton in your first live tournament. If you wouldnt quit on the spot you are on the spectrum.

You'd quit on the spot after paying the buy-in? Nonsense. Playing online is pretty much the same thing and lots of people play online. I'll say it again. If you have a problem with Ike wearing a mask the problem isn't with Ike or his mask. The problem is with you (and your need to tell others how to live their lives).

I don’t wear a mask at the poker table although I did briefly during the peak of the pandemic. Personally, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest if someone wears a mask. I like playing poker with people who are cordial, friendly, and don’t excessively waste time regardless of whether they are masked or not. I’m curious as to what specifically makes a mask on an opponent’s face a shitty experience for you, in the absence of any other negative behaviour.

And anyone pointing to facial tells without ever having a problem with decades of sunglasses wearing is hypocritical.

If my choice was to play with a guy who wears a mask and a guy that runs a coaching site you, the ******* that calls the first two guys a douchebag and a scammer, I would never pick you.

After the game obviously. You know thats what I meant ****ing moron.

Playing online the anonymity is part of the game. Live its not supposed to be. Theres a reason shitty video poker never took up. If Ike had his way he would be playing video poker from a different room without being in view of anyone else. No one wants to play like that. If you do you are probably a shitty misreg like Ike.

You said quit on the spot. While I realize you wouldn't do that, it demonstrates you'll spew forth logic that doesn't add up in an attempt to defend a position you can't otherwise justify.

You're filled with a lot of hatred. You have serious emotional problems. You are quick to call people names and think the worst, and not just in this thread. I recommend you get some professional help. Seriously. I'm not kidding. You have problems you can't solve by attacking people you disagree with on the internet. You are far more unpleasant to deal with than a truck load of players wearing masks and tanking every hand.

nobody would actually quit on the spot bc they payed a tournament entry but if you were in cash game in 2024 and got seated at a table where everyone had a mask almost everyone would leave or table change.

Zachary Elwood, please report to the white courtesy phone...

But serious question: of the various poker tells, how many of them are concealed by a respirator specifically? It has been a minute since I read Elwood's book, but I seem to recall more action-y things being possible tells – e.g. drawing attention to yourself vs. being inconspicuous, and tells involving the eyes or body overall. A couple of you have already mentioned handling of the chips or the speed with which they act. Gotta agree – those strike me as being the most likely live tells.

And sure, I suppose one could come up with some hypotheticals (e.g. "when he presses his lips together, it means weakness" or "he sticks his tongue out when it's a tough decision"). However, does Haxton have any of these tendencies? Because that's the guy Hellmuth referenced. Phil's Tweet wasn't "it could give some players a big edge" (with which I agree) but rather "it gives Ike a big edge." So unless Ike, and only Ike, exhibits some habit with his nose and mouth, Hellmuth's claim has little to no foundation.

So you guys think people who wear masks are dumb but you wouldn’t play at a table full of masked players? Odd logic there

Ike had been crushing live tournaments for like 15 years before he started wearing a mask.

In that time he never has a hood over his face and rarely ever wears sunglasses.

He has already proven that he can play at the highest level without making any attempt to cover live tells.

He's been on a particular hot streak recently. No one is denying that Ike is a competent tournament player. Are you denying that the mask gives him an additional edge?

Has anyone actually said that?

I don't think most people called Ike or people wearing masks to hide their faces are dumb.I think the vast majority of them,especially the younger ones are wearing the masks purely to cover their faces and it has nothing to do with covid which I think is scummy. I think almost all of these people are brutal to play with. I mean yes if someone has a paper mask hanging under their nose and tells me it's to stop covid they're complete morons but that's really not what we're talking about. Most people who play poker play for fun. As anyone who played in 2020-2021 after things reopened can tell you socially things were pretty bad at the poker table with masks required everywhere (and often plexiglass) but at the time we had no other choices, at least not to play live poker in legal casinos. Now we do. And at least we got 6-7 handed play to help things a little.

In the last 2 years or so, when most people aren't wearing masks I've encountered almost nobody fun to play with wearing a mask/cloth face covering. Obviously Ike is a crusher- but almost everyone I've played with in a mask during this time is just a huge nit. They're generally antisocial but even if they talk it's often hard to understand them. So if I get called for a game and see 7 people in masks I'm immediately asking for a table change or just not taking the seat. It's no different than if I get called for a table and everyone is wearing headphones and on their tablets. It's just going to be a miserable game so why subject myself to it. Even if someone is legit worried about covid for whatever reason there is obviously a massive overlap b/c their risk aversion in life and risk aversion at the poker table.

People give off all kinds of cues at the table that you should use to profile them if you don't know them. Everyone once in a while you'll be wrong but you make way more money doing this. They're often completely unaware they even doing this. If someone waits 6 hands for the big blind you should know not to pay them off. If someone has a giant backpack, tablet and headphone you should know they're not there for fun. If you see a table full of people wearing masks find a new table. It isn't rocket science.

Pretty sure Ike is anti-vax, as am I. He gains a small edge there's no question. What are we talking about? Either allow masks or don't.

I'll bet the majority throwing shade are vax lords too

That's underrating him a lot, he has been an end boss of tournaments and cash games his whole career.

I don't think wearing facemask gives him anymore advantage than wearing sunglasses/hat/hoodie, which he never does.

Isaac was recently on the Thinking Poker Podcast (Andrew Brokos and Carlos Welch) and explained why he continues to wear a mask when he plays poker. And I believe it was recorded before Hellmuth’s take.

lmao there's a huge overlap b/w anti vax and anti mask in general. this is an awful take.

I don't think you understand, nor worth having a converstation with.

I understand perfectly. What you said is just not the case at all. Of course you can't explain it bc you're completely wrong.

Haxton is on record stating he thinks unvaccinated people should be banned from most public places.

That's another level. Thought he was against vax cards @ wsop a few years back. I'll stay quiet.