Would you mind explaining the many ways? I dont ever really RIT, but feel pretty neutral about it until I see situations arise like this one.

If someone really wants to RIT, and I like them, sure why not.

It's bad for poker because no one wants to see two people chop on tv poker.

And for fun poker players whose only real chance to win is to embrace the variance, running it twice makes it HARDER for them to win in the short term and therefore is going to make them less likely to play. It becomes like gambling on a chess match, the worse player quickly realizes what a bad proposition this is.

And this isn't the first time someone has been angled running it twice.



This one hand makes it all worth it though imo.

all of this
plus blood on the table makes for a much better game

Their little group of 6 or so have been colluding on the show ever since they showed up on LTIT in like 2011 (?). Cameras catch em signaling/hollywooding for their buddies/showing each other cards all the time when 3 or more of the team play together.

Harry is perfectly capable of being the scumbag weasel POS that this video makes him out to be.

FULL DISCLOSURE: this is totally my opinion based on what my eyes have seen over a considerable sample of shows

I think the technical term for that is the "Armenian Merge".

Should run it 42*2 so we can get the best player winning

The fact that this thread exists shows me that live poker is in serious danger. The title of the thread should read "Reg Fish gets super lucky, live poker is still alive and well." Instead, every post I read talking about how shady his actions are tell me that we are biting the hand that feeds us.

Harry is a customer, and we need to bend over backwards to make sure the customer is right. Who cares if he changed his mind! Who even cares if he saw the turn card! In fact, who even cares that he may or may not believe that the turn card affects the EV of the decision to run it once vs twice! I'll take it a step further. Who even cares if it DOES affect the EV slightly! We're talking about a guy who put a ton of money in the middle preflop with 93o, and then got it in almost drawing dead. Why are we trying to piss him off? Let him have this one for christ sake.

Customers are allowed to be shady. If we don't let them do these things, and expect them to play by the same rules as we do, then they will stop playing. Stop this madness PLEASE!

uh, there are a ton of old school rules that apply to live poker in order to keep whales fed that the newer generation doesn't cater enough to but this is nowhere close to one of them.

"Who even cares if he saw the turn card!"

literally every person would care, except for you i guess bc you are danny fkn ocean. gtfo of here with this lololol

This mentality is why poker has a certain reputation.

You also lose out on customers like me who just want to have fun and not deal with a bunch of slimey shenanigans. So if all you care about is max fish, you might be shooting yourself in the foot here.

This kind of thinking might work for many businesses, where every transaction is between the customer and the business, and no transaction has an effect on any other customer.

The problem here is that the transactions at a poker room are between customers, and the poker room is merely a facilitator (it's obviously a little more complex than that, but I believe that's close enough for this conversation) that gets a cut of the action. One customer's shady actions directly affect other customers, so a simple "the customer is always right" stance can't possibly work.

Now, if you want to argue that the "whales" are the customers who matter most, and want to treat them differently, that's ground you want to walk very carefully.

why did LATB pull all the videos?

Just a guess. Embarrassment.

Harry paid Ryan $400 to take the video down.

Chris (Harry's opponent in the hand)is also a businessman/customer... so which one should we protect?

Hi Harry.

At risk of feeding the troll, I will grace you with a response. This kind of attitude is why live poker is so cancerous. So its okay to go ahead and berate the dealers and staff and even angle other players who are polite and kind, but you are a fish so its okay.

I dont play much live poker anymore, but I'd rather sit down in a game where people are behaving like normal beings then eeek out a little extra EV in a game where you are dealt 30/hands hour and you leave yourself open to obnoxious, rude and angle type behavior all in sake of keeping someone happy.

If I was this kid I would be pretty steamed and rightfully so. The dealer did not protect him and Harrys behavior is pretty disgusting all around. Glad it was worked out privately after the fact. I was indifferent to this "Harry" guy but its clear that he is pretty shady. Wouldnt give him the benefit of the doubt in any future scenarios and definitely the kind of guy you wouldnt want to ever do any business with. What a disgusting human. The poll does not lie and everyone pretty much agrees it was an angle so they can take down the video all they want but whats done is done.

I'm glad to see this got pushed back on by a few people. A few others have expressed views that you should put up unlimited **** from whales for the sake of profit. Clearly such games exist but I want no part of them, and it is reassuring that some others feel the same way.

Rude unsportsmanlike behavior should never be rewarded, fish, donator or not.

No, this is idiotic.


Just because Harry is a donk whale doesn’t mean players should be bending over backwards ****ing themselves in the ass to appease him. If harry doesn’t want to play because he’s actually forced to play by the rules then they can easily find another middle aged moron who sucks at Poker to take his place. It’s not like these guys are scarce, especially out in California.

Guys who are willing to put in 500 preflop at these stakes with 93o are scarce. They get more leeway than some nit and/or grinder. Obviously we don't let a nit get away with this type of stuff, but the fish get some leniency. How much? It depends on how fishy/whaley/good for the game they are. From what I've heard about this guy, he gets more rope than most, and so even though we feel it's a bit scummy (still debatable), who cares, move on, and be happy he is sitting in your game.

For those pros saying they don't want to play with scummy players, I would argue that this is your job, and there are certain things you need to put up with at your job. I don't love every client that I come in contact with, but I deal with them and treat them fairly no matter how much I dislike them. There are ups and downs and obviously there is a line that players shouldn't cross. I'm just saying that the line moves depending on the player. In this particular case, I don't think the line was crossed that egregiously, and I think the fact that the poker community has blasted this one incident shows how in danger the midstakes games are.

You're looking at the small picture, dude. Even if you care about nothing except your bottom line, it should be obvious why shady and abusive players are bad for business.

The players may agree to give the fish more leeway by not calling for the floor and conceding on potential decisions, but once the floor gets called, I expect the whale and the nit to get the same exact ruling. Arguably, it is a bad ruling, but it is so much worse if the ruling was made in a way that gives special treatment to Harry.

It's up to every player to decide how much crap they want to put up with and I support the right of other players to have less tolerance than me. Saying that you just have to put up with scummy players if you play poker professionally is like saying that women should just accept that sexual harassment is sometimes part of their job, so long as it doesn't cross some mythical line of "too much".

Dude, some examples of a fish's grace:

- screwing up chip denoms and allowing to change sizing
- counting chips in front of cards where room rules dictate its a bet
- run it however many times you want
- mostly 0ev (or even -EV on our side) gambling on the side to feed their degen or w/e
- allowing them to do pretty much whatever the fk they want without being picked up. esp in 3rd man walking rooms
- not complaining when they slam the table after folding when they would've hit gin OTT and it makes the giant pot going on awkward as fk for players in hand
- every other dumb thing that most live grinders over the age of 25 already know

all this stuff is still handled within reason ime and it's bc the "game" (the rest of us) understand that its genuinely not an angle... in 14 years the only games that I know would be cool with something like this, including how it was handled and defended by harry, were all huge clusterfks nowhere even near a casino.

on a side note, I actually agree that it sucks that this is a harry thread instead of a "PSA: How not to handle yourself in an awkward poker situation", but he kinda did it to himself here.

The core and only question is: Did Harry unequivocally cancel his agreement to run it twice with 0% chance of him seeing the turn card? The answer is no, there is a chance he saw the turn card. Therefore he cannot cancel the agreement and he owes Chris two runs.

Surprised Chris is not complaining about this more.

Also not surprised to see LATB once again fail to show business integrity.

Feldman said the Bike “Made it right” and everyone is happy.
I assume the Bike comped Chris some crap? Rooms, casino-cash, etc?

Unless Harry is the one that made it right, he should be bared from the game for that scumbag behavior.