Even if the turn card comes out slightly before Harry starts saying "once, once, once" it takes time to for the brain to process info and then send out a signal to start saying "once...". You can see Harry's expression and his dismay at seeing a set and that's when he emphatically changes his mind, "once, once, once". It's obvious he changes his mind before he sees the turn card.

While true, if the floor has to consider a player's brain processing speed of an up-turned card, well...

For what it's worth, only a few people in here are "100 percent positive" that Harry saw the turn card. Most who have used that as evidence of ill intent have merely posited that Harry said "once, once, once, once" at the moment the turn card was dealt. Whether he actually saw the card is less clear, but certainly the timing of the two events gives that impression.

So given that, how are you so sure that it's "highly unlikely?"

ORLY??

In reality there is just enough doubt to not be conclusive he saw the turn card but it looks extremely likely that he did.

You’re missing the point.. He is giving himself a freeroll! If two people have such an agreement and one then wishes to cancel, some form of two-way communication needs to take place.

Obviously I'm an expert of human behavior. I study human beings in their natural habitat on a daily basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

He's not giving himself a freeroll, that's your opinion. Had he missed the first board I'm sure he would have stuck to "Once, once, once".

You have the right to change your mind about running it twice, the other party doesnt have to agree, it's a gentleman's agreement.

The problem with this hand is Harry's timing. Of course he is allowed to change his mind about running it twice and he doesn't need Chris to agree if he wants to go back to running it once. But when should he be allowed to change his mind? He is clearly right on the border.

For everyone saying that Harry definitely saw the turn card first, you are saying he is a liar? And that everyone at the table are all lying too? Just to keep a bad player in action at the game? Maybe I'm naive, but I feel sorry for the people who see things that way.

Another point is that the burden of proof is on the wrong side in many arguments here.

As long as there is any chance Harry could have seen the turn card, then he is unable to change his made agreement with Chris/oral contract to run it twice in time. We don't need to know he 100% saw it.

Would love to see Ryan hop into this thread and explain how cheating is not allowed on LATB and that Harry is banned until he reimburses Chris. Frankly he should be just banned at this point, he's incredibly disrespectful to dealers and players all the time. There are plenty of fish on the show to support the pros if that's the M.O.

With middle set maybe he didn't want to be seen as a slow roller. After all, they already agreed to run it twice.

considering he tells the same lie over and over to the floor yes he's a liar.
did he definitely see the turn card? no but he might have which is why twice needs to be enforced.

"His word" is now dirt. He has trashed his reputation. Once you made "a deal" you don't "change your mind."

They mentioned on Friday nights show that they would be discussing this hand and how it all went down on their new Monday night program.

EDIT - Thank you also to the poster who put up the FULL version of this and the discussions that followed after.

This is the first time that I am watching it and I have to say, I hope that they do ban this joker. For the record, I do not feel that they will but man, his whole demeanor " I do not want any drama " what an asshat. I see exactly others have posted prior, he just tries to take control of the situation and bully his way while he explains his version.

What is this nonsense...." On the flop....I am talking english " comment? Talking out of your loud drunken ass and just making yourself look even more like a scumbag. ( Again, I am watching this clip for the first time, so it is really annoying me :P )

His version of this story is complete fn nonsense too. What a liar....yeah BAN this idiot from the show.

Then he pulls out the " You do realize that running it twice is not a legal thing...." OMFG! I mean, these players can do what they want and I am sure they do just stay because he is a massive fish but I would have just gotten up and walked out from that game and given Harry my 3c to boot. He is a disgrace and just comes off as an ass and a bully.

He also never said " If you show me a set, I am going once " well, ok, he did say that.....20 times AFTER this fiasco went down.

Kudos to Chris, he handled himself in such a professional way. Again, I am just angry watching this so again, Chris, you are a role model for the game, I commend you sir!!!

He says he was going to be happy to lose....well, you sir are a loser imo. Enjoy your money. You do this nonsense, to anyone but someone that you sit in a game with week in and week out, screw you.

That’s my point he burnt and turnt because they were running it twice so don’t be swayed and continue to run it twice ? Don’t see your argument

How has the dealer done nothing wrong? he began to deal twice then changed to once, that is wrong

Let's say the river was not a heart, what would have happened? Chris insisting on running it twice? Harry being like lol jk we agreed to run it twice? I find both implausible.

It kind of then becomes an opportunity for Chris to angle, though obviously that's Harry's fault and in Chris's defense he's wtf'n before the river.

I think what some people ITT are dismissing is the reality that in live cash games you get a rich tapestry of players and personalities.

Without such people cash games wouldn't run and wouldn't be possible for pros to grind in.

With this rich tapestry comes a wide spectrum of behaviour and multiple incidents, sometimes playing incidents and sometimes personal. Part of a pro grinder's job is to navigate all of this.

The problem with this incident is not so much what happened but the fact that the rules are quite hazy. In a lot of cases the haziness is what makes it difficult to determine if something shady or angly took place, and if it did if any rules were actually broken.

According to others ITT it isn't strictly "legal" to run it twice at LATB. If this is the case, or even if it were legal, the room should IMO use this case to formalise some off the record rules, procedures and etiquettes about running it twice and quietly convey them to all of their players, dealers and floor staff.

I do not know Harry so I am not quick to judge him like some others are, particularly because there are many players that have a live poker persona that can be very different to their much nicer IRL self.

But I will say that if you sit and grind in live cash games, as I did for a few years, you will encounter all sorts of people, often behaving in difficult ways to deal with. You just have to cope and adjust to it as it is all part of the game, and it is not real life, it is poker, so you shouldn't condemn such people for their *poker* behaviour.

another hidden gem

Eli was strongly opposed to what Harry did but did not become overly aggressive about it, likely cuz he wasnt in it but Im sure he would have screamed bloody murder if he was Chris.

Anyway Harry sayin after hand how he played x number of years and "never had an issue" then Eli says well you cant say THAT anymore !!

That so ? Not sure what that is supposed to mean and I've seen it stated in this thread a few times...

Can anyone explain this to me, and use small words, please ...

like fraud, equity, reliance, liability, etc.

Thanks.

Basically he means that it's a gentleman's agreement that can not and will not be enforced by the casino. However the casino could(and should) still ban a player if they act unethically in these situations.

Where I usually play in regularly raked games you are not allowed to run it twice, but you can do it in time rake games because you can essentially do whatever you want in the time rake games.

Nobody saying everyone else is lying but Harry is obviously a liar. He's claming he said: " If you have a set, I run it once", which he never did.
Who are you defending him here with this nonsense when you probably didn't even watch the incident.

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Harry claiming he said something that he didn't after an emotional event like this does not necessarily make him a liar. He could have misremembered.

Lmao "he could've misremembered"

Orrrrr he could just be an angling scumbag

+1

What is also means is Harry ( or anyone else ) can agree to anything that is suggested but if the outcome is not to his liking, he can claim that they should not be doing it anyway and the outcome should be over turned by the floorman since:

" They should not have been allowed to do it in the first place and therefor, it is unenforceable. "

He agrees to run it twice prior to knowing the hole cards. He changes his mind after he sees what he's up against. This shouldn't be allowed. Not sure what all this nitpicking about when he sees the turn card has to do with anything.

Pretty clear to me he agreed to something and then went back on it once he had more information. That's like calling a river bet and then not deciding to not pay because you find out you're beat when you see the hole cards.

Just curious, has he ever run it twice when he was up against a set with a pair?

If in one of these episodes he actually ran it multiple times then his own bs story is proven false.

This and I personally believe he saw the heart on the turn 100%, which made him say exactly what Dynasty quoted.

Should be a black mark against his name, but he has always seemed like the kind of ******* that doesn't really care about such things.

That all being said, other guy showed him his hand way too early and dealer acted way too quickly. imo